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Topic: Pardon My Question

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  1. #1

    Pardon My Question

    I've read many responses to posts where they compliment "rendorings". I'm not familiar to that term. I write and record my music playing GPO from my keyboard controller into Sonar. Is that "rendoring". Or is rendoring when you write the music from a notation program?

    I've noticed (maybe my bias) that music written into a notation program versus from GPO to keyboard controller into music software sounds less realistic, more rigid, and less dynamic.

    Thanks

  2. #2

    Re: Pardon My Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas J
    I've read many responses to posts where they compliment "rendorings". I'm not familiar to that term. I write and record my music playing GPO from my keyboard controller into Sonar. Is that "rendoring". Or is rendoring when you write the music from a notation program?
    No, I guess you are also rendering. I think is simply means to use samples to realize your music, as opposed to it being played by "real, live" people.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas J
    I've noticed (maybe my bias) that music written into a notation program versus from GPO to keyboard controller into music software sounds less realistic, more rigid, and less dynamic.
    Could be, but doesn't have to be.....just depends
    Kind Regards

    Louis Dekker
    My Music Site

    Pour être grand, il faut avoir été petit.

  3. #3

    Re: Pardon My Question

    In my experience the term "rendering" comes from using a video editor where the music, dialog, and sound effects are combined on several tracks along with the video then "rendered" (combined and exported to a file format).
    In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is.

    http://reberclark.blogspot.com http://reberclark.bandcamp.com http://www.youtube.com/reberclark

  4. #4
    Senior Member Leaf's Avatar
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    Re: Pardon My Question

    I have been using the word rendering without thinking it could have become, in todays usage, a particular type of realization. I borrowed it from art class where it could be any piece of art from a painting to a sculpture, or even a mosaic, or a tapestry... even a piece of jewelry would be a rendering. In French "se rendre compte de" means to realize, so i thought any realization of a piece of music, using any method, could be reffered to as a rendering.

  5. #5

    Re: Pardon My Question

    My professional career in software engineering was in graphics software and "rendering" was the term we use to realize a video presentation from 3D data, so it seemed like a natural extension of the term to apply it to "rendering" a sonic presentation from notational data. I actually just used the term automatically without giving it any thought because it seemed like the best term to describe the process.

    --gary shannon
    --gary shannon
    Spooks! - The Movie

  6. #6

    Re: Pardon My Question

    Hi, Thomas J

    As you can see, the term "rendering" has been borrowed from other processes, from the graphic arts, and at this point in time tends to be used rather generally for audio generated from synths and samples.

    But it still seems to be used more often to describe recordings made from notation programs. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen a musician who uses a sequencer like I do, to call the recording a "rendering."

    My perspective is from being a keyboard player, and I was using synths long before I ever used software or even owned a computer. To me, the computer is a tape deck which is just shaped differently - I make Recordings on it. "Renderings" sounds mechanical to me, like Photocopying, or perhaps like the process of developing a negative into a photographic print. It doesn't describe what I'm doing at all - not in my mind.

    And most of here understand what you mean about notation music tending to sound more mechanical. It doesn't have to sound that way, as witnessed by some incredible notation generated recordings posted in our Listening Room here. People getting organic results which sound like they were actually recorded are people who have delved deeply into their notation software to wring out the most musicality possible - and they succeed.

    Many other notation users just don't want to spend that much time making better recordings, because their primary goal is simply to have professional looking printed scores.

    And then there musicians who just want to make music, and have far fewer hurdles between themselves and the final output--the music--And I agree with you, that to call those kind of recordings "renderings" seems very - alien, not descriptive of the final outcome.

    Some people think the word simply means "a rendition," even "a performance," and so they don't find anything offensive in it. We all have different feelings - connotations applied to different words.

    Randy B.
    (rbowser)

  7. #7
    Senior Member Leaf's Avatar
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    Re: Pardon My Question

    Here is how she looks according to Oxford American Dictionary, which like most words is probably different than my huge antique 1959 Webster New World Dictionary.

    With the dictionary's definitions ever evolving to idealy keep the old and reflect new usages, i think that's enough or plenty of change without letting various industries change the definitions.

    Dictionary
    rendering |?rend?ri ng | noun
    1 a performance of a piece of music or drama : her fine rendering of “Che fàro senza Eurydice” was enough to win her strong commendation. • a translation : a literal rendering of an idiom. • a work of visual art, esp. a detailed architectural drawing : a consummately lifelike three-dimensional rendering of a building interior. • Computing the processing of an outline image using color and shading to make it appear solid and three-dimensional.

    2 the action of applying plaster to a wall. • the coating applied in such a way.

    3 formal the action of giving, yielding, or surrendering something : the rendering of dues.

    render |?rend?r| verb [ trans. ]
    1 provide (a service) : money serves as a reward for services rendered. • give (help) : Mrs. Evans would render assistance to those she thought were in real need. • submit or present for inspection or consideration : he would render income tax returns at the end of the year. • poetic/literary hand over : he will render up his immortal soul. • deliver (a verdict or judgment) : the jury's finding amounted to the clearest verdict yet rendered upon the scandal.
    2 [ trans. ] cause to be or become; make : the rains rendered his escape impossible.
    3 represent or depict artistically : the eyes and the cheeks are exceptionally well rendered. • translate : the phrase was rendered into English. • Music perform (a piece) : a soprano solo reverently rendered by Linda Howie. • Computing process (an outline image) using color and shading in order to make it appear solid and three-dimensional.
    4 melt down (fat) : the fat was being cut up and rendered for lard. • process (the carcass of an animal) in order to extract proteins, fats, and other usable parts : [as adj. ] ( rendered) the rendered down remains of sheep.
    5 cover (stone or brick) with a coat of plaster : external walls will be rendered and tiled. noun a first coat of plaster applied to a brick or stone surface.

    DERIVATIVES renderer noun ORIGIN late Middle English : from Old French rendre, from an alteration of Latin reddere ‘give back,’ from re- ‘back’ + dare ‘give.’ The earliest senses were [recite,] [translate,] and [give back] (hence [represent] and [perform] ); [hand over] (hence [give (help)] and [submit for consideration] ); [cause to be] ; and [melt down.]

  8. #8
    Senior Member Leaf's Avatar
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    Re: Pardon My Question

    That came out wrong, what i meant was they (industries) can add new meanings or usages, but the old ones don't just go away.

  9. #9

    Re: Pardon My Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Leaf
    Dictionary
    rendering |?rend?ri ng | noun
    1 a performance of a piece of music or drama : her fine rendering of “Che fàro senza Eurydice” was enough to win her strong commendation.
    That pretty much says all that needs to be said.

    --gary shannon
    --gary shannon
    Spooks! - The Movie

  10. #10

    Re: Pardon My Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas J
    I've read many responses to posts where they compliment "rendorings". I'm not familiar to that term. I write and record my music playing GPO from my keyboard controller into Sonar. Is that "rendoring". Or is rendoring when you write the music from a notation program?

    I've noticed (maybe my bias) that music written into a notation program versus from GPO to keyboard controller into music software sounds less realistic, more rigid, and less dynamic.

    Thanks
    As others have said here, the term 'rendering' in this context is a generic term describing the process of creating a recording/performance using synthesizers, sample libraries, sequencers etc. Although the term 'rendering' can apply to this process using a notation editor, it most certainly is not specifically associated purely with using a notation program. We can render using a synthesizer, sequencer or a notation program.

    Works created using a notation editor most certainly need not sound any the less realistic or less dynamic than those using other processes. This is about the skill of the artist. A work rendered through a sequencer in the hands of a less skilled person will sound inferior to that from a notation editor performed by a skilled person and vice versa. This is dependent on a person's preffered workflow, skill and musicianship. There are many works in the 'Listening Room' and Gary's examples page performed through notation editors that sound authentic and convincing.

    Personally I use Finale 2008 and Sonar Producer. This way I get to use the best of both worlds.
    Michael
    Patience is a virtue, sensitivity is a gift

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