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Topic: Strings strings strings! an HONEST opinion.

  1. #1

    Strings strings strings! an HONEST opinion.

    The more I mess with Garritans strings, the less I like them. I think it might be possible to make a string library that didn\'t take long to master and would sound great no matter what patch you used. GOS is an impressive achievement, but is all that excellent programming concealing something? Or am I crazy? It is certainly the best string library out there so far. Is it possible to sample strings that would sound better than GOS? I don\'t know. I keep thinking back to a comment that someone on this forum posted twice. Something about playing GOS all night with mouth open and then realizing that was just the first patch. Doesn\'t do that for me. So here is my superficial overview of GOS. Tons of good sounding patches, although a little too dry for my tastes. Nice cellos in general. Basses sound small, not enough fast attack stuff. Violas and violins have some nice faster attack patches, just not fast enough and nice fx and unusual bowing styles. Some nice sustains, but no flowing beautiful airy sustains. Some sustains, like the all violins vibrato, sound poor. The library does not sound like it was recorded in a hall. Sounds like the smaller room at Lincoln Center. The library generally lacks big dynamics and sounds thin. That generally comes from a smaller non reverberant space. Still, a great library, with the best programming around, just not a final solution (there aren’t many of those, if any). I have been getting some good results layering things and adding reverb, but I guess I was expecting GOS to rescue me from this mind numbing practise. This is my opinion as a composer. I am not planning a string library. Maybe I have missed something, but I can’t find big flowing strings in this library. I would trade the whole thing for one super lush patch. Am I the only one, or has the hype machine consumed you all? I think a great sound is top priority, everything else is secondary. By the way, London Percussion is very impressive and Mirislav\'s choir is nice, but mellow. I didn\'t get to hear Sonic Implants strings.

  2. #2

    Re: Strings strings strings! an HONEST opinion.

    Yep...you\'ve hit it right on the head...Gary isn\'t really a sample developer...he\'s a spy and the cds are actually a delivery system for top secret military codes. The nation is grateful that you, Nick Phoenix, have finally cracked this spy ring...no...on second thought, you are crazy...
    You\'re entitled to your opinion, and I\'d never argue otherwise...but the difference between Gary and you is that Gary would never come on here and openly bash a fellow developers library for no apparent reason in such a shady manner. Its not what you said, its how you said it...I think it shows incredibly poor taste, and it\'s something you seem to do over and over again in this group...


    snip...but is all that excellent programming concealing something? Or am I crazy?

    snip...Am I the only one, or has the hype machine consumed you all?

    [This message has been edited by Scott Speed (edited 01-28-2002).]

  3. #3

    Re: Strings strings strings! an HONEST opinion.

    Yeah I agree. Sample Developers shouldn\'t post negative opinions about other developers work. Nick, you should know how difficult and time consuming this stuff is.
    You\'re definitely entitled to your own opinion and you do great work as well, but it seems you did this in a past thread about Dan Deans woodwinds as well after hearing them at the NAMM show last year.

    [This message has been edited by Damon (edited 01-28-2002).]

  4. #4

    Re: Strings strings strings! an HONEST opinion.


    Nick is entitled to his own opinion and can share just the same as all of us. Just because he\'s a developer doesn\'t mean he doesn\'t have the right to say what he thinks.


    I dont think you needed to be so casual to the good things and forceful the the bad things. Plus I think you should really have compared GOS with other strings libraries, but its more of a bash on GOS.

    The thing I really enjoy about GOS is the fact that Gary actually takes into consideration of what the users want for updates, or offers help in getting a particular sound. Instead of bashing the library, maybe you should have posed some questions to Gary and the GOS group of users.

    yes tweaking is part of what GOS is about, and \"learning\" it is also what its about.

    GOS isn\'t perfect. I too find the basses are problematic at times, because they seem too close.

    The short bow issue with low strings is being addressed.

    Would you be the only one who would trade it in for one lush string patch? I doubt it. There are enough people out their clammoring for that one \"perfect\" patch, ready to be ignorant to everything else. I, for the life of me, cant understand why one would want to trade in all the other cool sounds in GOS for one patch that will get old really quickly, and everybody and their grandmother will use exactly the same way ALL THE TIME. now if it was Playable with EXP control, thats a different story, but would probably take some time learning how to use.

    I spoke with Gary at length about a \"lush\" string patch with wide vibrato and he wants to offer an update at some point with patches with more vibrato. This would either include re recording smaller sections with more vibrato or another method, but wants to offer it to the GOS user community as a free update.

    I\'m sorry but all this is unheard of in the sample community. Multiple free updates? Of *user requests*? That blows my mind, and is why I did updates on my own accord for GOS. I wasn\'t asked by Gary to do them and I am not being paid for it. I\'m giving to a community of users. Which is also one of the reasons I love GOS. Users that share ideas and experiences. Which again helps shape the library with future updates of both the software and samples. Maybe its so radically different that one doesn\'t think to ask for changes or share opinions in a non destructive manner.

    Now about the sound. I remember playing the violins when I first got GOS and I really dug them. Over time I was able to pick out what I didn\'t like in the library, but when I first got them I was blown away. Not to mention sound is so much a matter of opinion nowadays.

    I can understand one posting the bad about then not saying so much about the good if there were other libraries in its league or other libraries that would \"do\". But IMO there aren\'t any libraries out that will do or in its league at this point. Maybe the SI strings will out do GOS, maybe not. I just dont think it should go so unoticed (or barely mentioned) that there isn\'t anything out there like GOS.

    And...is all that good programming hiding something? No. Unless you\'re deaf. The sound doesn\'t change because of the programming. The programming is one of the best features, yes, and should NOT be ignored. If, developers especially, ignore this we are in for some crap libraries in the future. The programming is still why I am so dissapointed with other libraries. Simple velocity splits just dont do it for expressive instruments.

    ah whatever. everyone needs all the freaking libraries thats jsut all it comes down to. Then one can compare on their own and find the plusses and minuses of all of the libraries.

    Really...I am an Idiot

    [This message has been edited by KingIdiot (edited 01-28-2002).]

  5. #5

    Re: Strings strings strings! an HONEST opinion.

    I have to agree with one thing that, Nick did say.

    It is very hard to get lush, soft and tender lines with GOS.
    I said that the first day I bought GOS and I was lead to believe that I was doing something wrong.

    Other than that...GOS is worth every penny and when you compare what you get with GOS VS. Other libraries…it is priced right. Not, over priced… like MANY!

    This is the first library I bought that did not give me that feeling of being out in the cold. Updates are wonderful but, the care and respect GOS gives their users really makes you feel like you have made a smart investment.

    I will go on record and say... I will not buy another library unless it is backed by the Garritan name. I, like many, have spent countless $$$ only to be disappointed. IMO,
    GOS is a new standard in many things.

    PS. About the lush string thing...
    I’m sure Gary will take care of it and not charge us to do so.

    Like I said... a new standard in many things.

    Francis Belardino

    Sound Designer
    Audio Visions, LTD.
    Wilmington, DE.


  6. #6

    Re: Strings strings strings! an HONEST opinion.

    Ok... after thinking about this all day :
    If you bought a library and you don\'t like it you have all the right to come on here and say anything you want about it even if you\'re a developper, expect the same from other developpers though....

    As long as you are not writing in a thread about your new library and saying that another developper\'s library is not as good as yours i don\'t see why it shouldn\'t be accepted, as long as you are not selling a similar product...

    Personally, i would\'ve first emailed Gary Garritan and spoke to him about this and maybe he could\'ve helped in some way, but then again i didn\'t spend 1000 us dollars on a string library.


    [This message has been edited by Franky (edited 01-28-2002).]

  7. #7

    Re: Strings strings strings! an HONEST opinion.


    I was wondering if you were making or going
    to make Quantum Leap Strings .
    Because I love the quality of Quantum Leap Brass.I hope your thinking of making it.
    It will be nice if the price is
    about the same as Quantum Leap Brass.

    Thank you for reading.


  8. #8

    Re: Strings strings strings! an HONEST opinion.

    I have only heard GOS at NAMM briefly.
    The Celli were on the left?
    The Violins in the middle?
    And without reverb the sound is ....???
    Note offs?
    Stereo image..?

    As a classical engineer from Vienna I was surprised. But maybe the hype had set my expectations too high.

  9. #9

    Re: Strings strings strings! an HONEST opinion.

    First off, I don\'t own GOS, but there\'s no doubt in my mind that it\'s a very fine library. However, it just doesn\'t offer the sound I\'m going for. So I have no great feelings toward it, and certainly no ill feelings, which means I have no predetermined bias toward anyone here.

    That said, I can\'t believe some of y\'all are jumping on Nick for offering his opinion. If he doesn\'t have the right to be critical of something, what gives you the right to be critical of him?

    I don\'t understand the \"he\'s a developer, too\" comments. I don\'t see Nick and Gary competing with each other quite yet. Does Nick have a string library out on the market? Nah-uh. Does Gary have a brass or rare instruments library? Nopers. Nick, in addition to being a sample developer, is also a composer. He\'s had a go with GOS, and is giving his comments on it. Whether it\'s praise or not isn\'t the issue. If it WAS praise, would you be saying \"Wow, he\'s a competitor! Why\'s he speaking such kind things of GOS?\"

    I\'m just going to stop myself before I start rambling (that, and I\'ve also already kinda lost the point I had in my head ), because I don\'t see any problem with what Nick said, and I\'m sure Gary doesn\'t either, as he seems an extremely reasonable person.

    [This message has been edited by Lance_M (edited 01-28-2002).]

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Chandler, Arizona

    Re: Strings strings strings! an HONEST opinion.

    I think Franz is stoned!! I can guarantee that the Cellos are on the right and that the violins are to the left before adding panning! I\'m not sure what he\'s talking about without reverb - all demos were given with some reverb at NAMM. Most libraries will sound strange without reverb as that\'s not how you naturally hear them. Also, it was quite loud at NAMM and it would be very hard to give a definitive review based on what was heard there.

    Franz, can you give more examples on what you expect with dynamics, stereo imaging, note-offs?

    I find it hard to purchase any more of your libraries with the comments you post on this forum! The quality of your demos on your site are not impressive.

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