• Register
  • Help
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 15

Topic: The Last Kiss of Summer

Share/Bookmark
  1. #1
    Senior Member Leaf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    2,797

    The Last Kiss of Summer

    http://www.box.net/shared/dm1jkrmbp4

    Ok, no one would answer these questions when i posted in General Discussion, so i'm going to try here, because i have to find a way to get rid of the strings wafting to complete silence and then swelling to where it rattles the bass.

    I found this Tweaker's Guide to MIDI Controls on http://www.tweakheadz.com/midi_controllers.htm , but still have a little trouble understanding what is causing this and what i can do to control it/remove it/lessen it, cant go forward until i get it out or lessen it very much.

    Thanks! any other comments, critiques, suggestions welcome on anything, composition, structure, notes, style, chords, mix, is it lame, does it sound ike something already done, etc.

    Should i restate the questions in blue (below) to make them clearer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Leaf
    http://www.box.net/shared/dm1jkrmbp4

    Gpo Harp Lite (with delay)
    Gpo Full Strings KS
    Logic Hollywood Strings
    Logic's Pad called "Green Tea"
    Logic Express 7

    I'm posting here instead of listening room, because this mp3 is a recording of what is still basically just the foundation midi, same midi file applied to those four instruments. I plan to split into parts to orchestrate it with GPO and Jabb, as well as change the last minute or more to add a build, climax and a timpani roll, and will probably change what the chords do around where the Bb comes in... and various tweaking notes and other stuff.

    The feel i'm trying to get isn't quite as sad as it is in this rendition, but i thought this with the guitar part changed to Harp sounds kinda interesting.

    The main reason i'm posting is well it's the end of summer and it's not close to being done, trying to get to last leg of learning curve and have some questions. Sorry if these are dumb questions or if post too long.

    I made the midi on a Yamaha DGX-205 Keyboard with right hand set on Slow Strings and Left hand set on auto-accompaniment, so i would have all the chord notes, and then I changed the chord pattern some to try to make it sound less repetitive and to make it sound better for guitar (or harp).

    Either the auto-accomaniment or the slow strings has apparently put some things in the midi that makes it pulse or swell, i don't really know the proper musical word for it but you can hear it to see what i mean. It doesn't sound that way when you are playing it on the keyboard. The pulsing was overwhelming the bass, making the speakers rattle, so i had to eq out most of the bass.

    I need some copies of the midi without that, but retaining other stuff like the note velocities and sustains. And on some i would want to keep some of the pulsing but much less than what it is giving, and would be nice to be able to control that, or maybe even have it to insert in some other piece.

    Logic has an event list that has all the notes with their velocities, and between those lines are "control", the number of that control, and the value. It has a lot of 11's which i think are note velocities.

    I let it scroll while the music played and with every pulse there was a set of two or three EQ events. I erased those to see what would happen and it reduced it some but didn't eliminate it.

    Is this "control," on the event list, the same as "cc" everyone talks about? (i don't know much about cc because i have been spending all my time learning Finale and how to sort of read music)

    Is there a standard list of what number controls what, if you didn't set it yourself to control something else?
    Or is some on this list ones that Yamaha has set to a certain function?

    Is there some other way to lose that pulse or swell without editing or erasing lines on the event list?

    If not which lines do i erase to take it out?

    In Finale, does the human playback replace all of the cc's removing all of the pre-existing cc's?


    Under this post i'll make a separate post with a paste of the event list.

    Thanks for any help or suggestions you can offer. Any other comments or sugestions also welcome.

    David
    Quote Originally Posted by Leaf

    Here is screenshots of the top of the events list, the middle, and bottom:

    http://www.box.net/shared/aicn1hc6u8

    http://www.box.net/shared/ecy62cq75d

    http://www.box.net/shared/pp102s0pyy

  2. #2

    Re: The Last Kiss of Summer

    Leaf
    I am not really sure on how to answer you.........but In sonar (and I just learned this this past weekend) the CC1 is controlled in the piano roll view on the bottom and to the left there are three drop down boxes to make choices for your midi controllers....now maybe logic has something similar??? .... Sonar has an event list but it is a seperate dialog box........
    and there in lies my complete knowledge on this topic......just enough for me to get into a lot of trouble...........
    Cliff
    three year old E machine
    GPO Sibelius Edition (now Liberated!)
    GPO Personal Orchestra
    GPO Jazz Band
    2 Classic Guitar Degrees (or so I was informed)
    Not a lick of sense!

  3. #3
    Senior Member Leaf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    2,797

    Re: The Last Kiss of Summer

    Quote Originally Posted by truckermusic
    Leaf
    I am not really sure on how to answer you.........but In sonar (and I just learned this this past weekend) the CC1 is controlled in the piano roll view on the bottom and to the left there are three drop down boxes to make choices for your midi controllers....now maybe logic has something similar??? .... Sonar has an event list but it is a seperate dialog box........
    and there in lies my complete knowledge on this topic......just enough for me to get into a lot of trouble...........
    Cliff
    Thanks.

    I'm starting to think maybe it is some cc event that is triggering a loop, because like on the first pic of the eventlist, there is cc7 volume going from 48 to 67 in 18 steps or 18 events, but no where on the list do i see it going all the way down to close to zero and going all the way back up to max every two measures, like it sounds like it's doing. It seems to me like if that is the case, the loop would be somewher in the file to remove as well as whatever is triggering it.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    SAN ANTONIO, TX
    Posts
    1,386

    Re: The Last Kiss of Summer

    Hi Leaf,
    I'm not sure what your goal is. This has a Philip Glass air to it. Sounds are continuous; use the same themes; and maintain a continuing emetional string.
    I would like to hear at least a counter melody or second theme introduced so that I could organize my thinking. It's kind of like floating in the ocean with continuous waves buffeting my raft. I would also like to hear more notes from the high piano notes in the middle. An increasingly faster piano line would add a good contrast to the flowing background.

    Again,
    I don't know what you are aiming to do.

    Since I enter music in Finale I don't have a clue how to adjust instruments.

  5. #5

    Re: The Last Kiss of Summer

    I'm sure there are other experts who can answer you much better, but I'm pretty sure there must be a function in Logic that allows you to delete all controllers. If I were you, that's what I would do and then start adding them from scratch the way you want them. As far as I understand, Finale HP can be set to either ignore existing cc's or incorporate them.

    BTW CC11 is the expression control.
    Kind Regards

    Louis Dekker
    My Music Site

    Pour être grand, il faut avoir été petit.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Leaf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    2,797

    Thumbs up Re: The Last Kiss of Summer

    Quote Originally Posted by garymosse
    Hi Leaf,
    I'm not sure what your goal is. This has a Philip Glass air to it. Sounds are continuous; use the same themes; and maintain a continuing emetional string.
    I would like to hear at least a counter melody or second theme introduced so that I could organize my thinking. It's kind of like floating in the ocean with continuous waves buffeting my raft. I would also like to hear more notes from the high piano notes in the middle. An increasingly faster piano line would add a good contrast to the flowing background.

    Again,
    I don't know what you are aiming to do.

    Since I enter music in Finale I don't have a clue how to adjust instruments.
    Thanks very much for the feedback, and very good advice. I want to improve it and think the points you raised are going to be good places for me to start.

    David

  7. #7
    Senior Member Leaf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    2,797

    Re: The Last Kiss of Summer

    Quote Originally Posted by LouisD
    I'm sure there are other experts who can answer you much better, but I'm pretty sure there must be a function in Logic that allows you to delete all controllers. If I were you, that's what I would do and then start adding them from scratch the way you want them. As far as I understand, Finale HP can be set to either ignore existing cc's or incorporate them.

    BTW CC11 is the expression control.
    Thanks Louis, it's looking more and more like that's the thing to do. And thanks for the info on CC11, i didn't know, those are probably the ones i need to try deleting from the list and see if it helps.

    David

  8. #8

    Re: The Last Kiss of Summer

    Hi, David "Leaf"

    Earlier I saw your post in General Discussion - I have to confess to having been overwhelmed with the length and seeming complexity of questions, so didn't quite know what to say.

    Now I've heard the piece again, and again have really enjoyed being swept away by its gentle wistfulness. It reminds me a bit of the sort of thing I'll improvise late at night to unwind from the day.

    --Without going into great detail, since I'm still a bit unsure of where to start in a reply to the technical questions - my main response is a question: Why are you trying to wrestle with the auto-accompaniment generated MIDI? I think you would be Much better off to simply play all the parts in your project without relying on anything auto-generated - look at the hassles it's caused you!

    The strings keep swelling because of MIDI data, as has been established here - It's a nice sound, but grows tiresome. As has been suggested, it's best to completely wipe out All MIDI controller data, so you can record data in the way you want. BUT, I'm suggesting that you'd be better off simply playing this all in real time in the first place. Then, all the data would be Yours, and you would know how to fine tune it.

    cc11 was mentioned - That's the volume control for standard MIDI instruments, as well as the Garritan Strad and Gofriller, but cc1 is the volume controller for GPO.

    The Harp, to me, verges on being muddy, played so constantly in that lower octave. I would like an experiment with its entire line played an octave higher.

    Basically, David - As I've said, my strong suggestion is that you always play everything you want in a project, so you have complete control over it - rather than having to reverse-engineer what was churned out for you. Who KNows what all is in that auto-accompaniment file?

    Returning to the music itself - I found it very effective. Suggestions have been made about how it could be fleshed out, and of course one can always do more of that if that's the desire, but it seems to me you were going for a much simpler, straight-forward Sound - and that despite technical difficulties, you achieved it.

    Randy B.
    (rbowser)

  9. #9
    Senior Member Leaf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    2,797

    Re: The Last Kiss of Summer

    Randy,
    Thanks very much for the complements and good advice!

    You wrote:
    " Why are you trying to wrestle with the auto-accompaniment generated MIDI? I think you would be Much better off to simply play all the parts in your project without relying on anything auto-generated - look at the hassles it's caused you!"

    Amen to that brother! That was kinda lame for me to do that and now will take your advice. I had started by placing chord notes in notation, but was having difficulty deciding which notes, so played it on auto to get them to decide for me. But now i have all the chord notes to look at, so should move on now, enough of these hassles.

    I guess even though it was fustrating and slowed me down, i think i learned some things, so was not all was lost on the diversion.

    Thanks again for your comments and advice on the piece itself, and for suggesting i climb out of that mess i had gotten into.
    David

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Wilton, NH
    Posts
    2,450

    Re: The Last Kiss of Summer

    First, I should say you need to put a link to the music in the main message – I missed it the first time I read through I so skipped it.

    I’m not sure if I can answer your questions. However, to my ear, push those swelling strings back a little. The swelling sound isn’t bad and kind of helps create the mood, but it does over power everything else including parts that should be more important. Also, I know this is supposed to be gentle, but a few more dynamic changes would help.

    Besides the above, for the most part I agree with Randy – do it yourself instead trying to undo/redo something that was done for you.
    Trent P. McDonald

Go Back to forum
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •