Yes, I can\'t wait to see it. Michael Moore is brilliant.
And now for your viewing pleasure:
Yes, I can\'t wait to see it. Michael Moore is brilliant.
And now for your viewing pleasure:
And for those whose morale is flagging:
Check these out...
Thank you it is reassuring to know there are others out there who feel the same way. Soundsmith......the posters are brilliant! Thanks for the link.
Michael Moore\'s new movie is out. It looks at the gun issue in America, and much more. It\'s funny and brilliant. If it comes to your town, you have to see it. As I am vehemently against George W.\'s phony war, I am posting Rep. Pete Stark\'s statement from the house floor, last week.
Editor\'s note: Below is the fiery statement delivered on the floor of the
House Wednesday by veteran California Democrat Rep. Pete Stark.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Oct. 10, 2002 | \"Mr. Speaker, I rise in opposition to this resolution
(authorizing military force against Iraq). I am deeply troubled that
may be lost without a meaningful attempt to bring Iraq into compliance
U.N. resolutions through careful and cautious diplomacy.
\"The bottom line is I don\'t trust this president and his advisors.
\"Make no mistake, we are voting on a resolution that grants total
to the president, who wants to invade a sovereign nation without any
specific act of provocation. This would authorize the United States to
as the aggressor for the first time in our history. It sets a precedent
our nation -- or any ation -- to exercise brute force anywhere in the
without regard to international law or international consensus.
\"Congress must not walk in lockstep behind a president who has been so
callous to proceed without reservation, as if war was of no real
\"You know, three years ago in December, Molly Ivins, an observer of
politics, wrote: \'For an upper-class white boy, Bush comes on way too
At a guess, to make up for being an upper-class white boy.\'
\"\'Somebody,\' she said, \'should be worrying about how all this could
handling of future encounters with some Saddam Hussein.\' How prophetic,
\"Let us not forget that our president -- our commander in chief -- has
experience with, or knowledge of, war. In fact, he admits that he was at
best ambivalent about the Vietnam War. He skirted his own military
and then failed to serve out his time in the National Guard. And, he
reported years later that at the height of that conflict in 1968 he
notice \'any heavy stuff going on.\'\"
\"So we have a president who thinks foreign territory is the opponent\'s
dugout and Kashmir is a sweater.
\"What is most unconscionable is that there is not a shred of evidence to
justify the certain loss of life. Do the generalized threats and
of this administration give any one of us in Congress the confidence to
a mother or father or family that the loss of their child or loved one
in the name of a just cause?
\"Is the president\'s need for revenge for the threat once posed to his
enough to justify the death of any American?
\"I submit the answer to these questions is no.
\"Aside from the wisdom of going to war as Bush wants, I am troubled by
pays for his capricious adventure into world domination. The
admits to a cost of around $200 billion!
\"Now, wealthy individuals won\'t pay. They\'ve got big tax cuts already.
Corporations won\'t pay. They\'ll cook the books and move overseas and
send their contributions to the Republicans. Rich kids won\'t pay. Their
daddies will get them deferments as Big George did for George W.
\"Well then, who will pay?
\"School kids will pay. There\'ll be no money to keep them from being left
-- way behind. Seniors will pay. They\'ll pay big time as the Republicans
Social Security and rob the Trust Fund to pay for the capricious war.
will be curtailed and drugs will be more unaffordable. And there won\'t
money for a drug benefit because Bush will spend it all on the war.
\"Working folks will pay through loss of job security and bargaining
Our grandchildren will pay through the degradation of our air and water
quality. And the entire nation will pay as Bush continues to destroy
rights, women\'s rights and religious freedom in a rush to phony
and to courting the messianic Pharisees of the religious right.
\"The questions before the members of this House and to all Americans are
immense, but there are clear answers. America is not currently
a genuine, proven, imminent threat from Iraq. The call for war is wrong.
\"And what greatly saddens me at this point in our history is my fear
this entire spectacle has not been planned for the well-being of the
but for the short-term political interest of our president.
\"Now, I am also greatly disturbed that many Democratic leaders have also
political calculation ahead of the president\'s accountability to truth
reason by supporting this resolution. But, I conclude that the only
is to vote no on the resolution before us.\"
- - - - - - - - - - - -
About the writer
Rep. Pete Stark, D-Calif., represents the Fremont, Calif., congressional
<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">[/LIST]</font><blockquote><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">code:</font><hr /><pre style=\"font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;\"> </pre><hr /></blockquote><font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">
Actor Sean Penn Lashes Bush over Iraq War Drums
October 18, 2002
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Actor Sean Penn on Friday
weighed in on the international debate over a possible
war with Iraq, paying for a $56,000 advertisement in
the Washington Post accusing President Bush of stifling
debate and threatening civil iberties.
In an open letter to Bush taking up most of a page in
the main section of the daily newspaper, the Oscar-
nominated star of \"I Am Sam\" and \"Dead Man Walking,\"
urged the president to stop a cycle where \"bombing is
answered by bombing, mutilation by mutilation, killing
\"I beg you, help save America before yours is a legacy
of shame and horror,\" Penn wrote, echoing voices of
caution from around the world that have called for a
measured response to allegations Iraq is developing
weapons of mass destruction.
The letter was signed \"Sincerely, Sean Penn, San
Francisco, California.\" A spokesman for the Washington
Post confirmed that it was placed by the Hollywood
celebrity who has starred in more than 40 movies.
Quoting Bush\'s declaration that the world was either
\"with us or against us\" in the war on terrorism
launched after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, Penn, 42,
said Bush was marginalizing critics, manipulating the
media and promoting fear.
Those actions and \"your administration\'s deconstruction
of civil liberties all contradict the very core of the
patriotism you claim,\" wrote Penn, who is married to
actress Robin Wright Penn, and was formerly married to
pop star Madonna.
\"Sacrificing American soldiers or innocent civilians in
an unprecedented preemptive attack on a separate
sovereign nation may well prove itself a most temporary
medicine,\" he said.
I\'m an American tired of American Lies
Thursday October 17, 2002
The man who drives me to and from work is named Woody
too. A relief to me, as it minimises the chance of my
forgetting his name. I call him Woodman and he calls me
Wood. He has become my best friend here, even though
he\'s upset that I have quit drinking beer. He\'s smart,
funny, and there\'s nothing he hasn\'t seen in 33 years
behind the wheel of his black cab. He drove me for a
while before I felt confident he liked me; he doesn\'t
like people easily, especially if they have a rap for
busting up black cabs.
Woodman and I agree about a lot of things, but one
thing we can never agree about is Iraq. He thinks the
only language Saddam understands is brute force. I
don\'t believe we should be bombing cities in our quest
for one man. We\'ve killed a million Iraqis since the
start of the Gulf war - mostly by blocking humanitarian
aid. Let\'s stop now. Thankfully, most of the Brits I
talk to about the war are closer to me than to Woodman.
Only your prime minister doesn\'t seem to have noticed.
I have been here three months doing a play in the West
End. I am having the time of my life. I love England,
the people, the parks, the theatre. The play is great
and the audiences have been a dream. Probably I should
just relax, be happy and talk about the weather, but
this war is under my skin - it affects my sleep.
I remember playing basketball with an Iraqi in the late
80s while Iran and Iraq were at war. I didn\'t know at
the time that the US and Britain were supplying weapons
to both sides. I asked why they were always at war with
each other and he said something that stayed with me:
\"If it were up to thepeople, there would be peace. It\'s
the governments that create war.\" And now my government
is creating its second war in less than a year. No; war
requires two combatants, so I should say \"its second
I went to the White House when Harvey Weinstein was
showing Clinton the movie Welcome to Sarejevo, which I
was in. I got a few moments alone with Clinton. Saddam
throwing out the weapons inspectors was all over the
news and I asked what he was going to do. His answer
was very revealing.
He said: \"Everybody is telling me to bomb him. All the
military are saying, \'You gotta bomb him.\' But if even
one innocent person died, I couldn\'t bear it.\" And I
looked in his eyes and I believed him. Little did I
know he was blocking humanitarian aid at the time,
allowing the deaths of thousands of innocent people.
I am a father, and no amount of propaganda can convince
me that half a million dead children is acceptable
\"collateral damage\". The fact is that Saddam Hussein
was our boy. The CIA helped him to power, as they did
the Shah of Iran and Noriega and Marcos and the Taliban
and countless other brutal tyrants. The fact is that
George Bush Sr continued to supply nerve gas and
technology to Saddam even after he used it on Iran and
then the Kurds in Iraq. While the Amnesty International
report listing countless Saddam atrocities, including
gassing and torturing Kurds, was sitting on his desk,
Bush Sr pushed through a $2bn \"agricultural\" loan and
Thatcher gave hundreds of millions in export credit to
Saddam. The elder Bush then had the audacity to quote
the Amnesty reports to garner support for his oil war.
A decade later, Shrub follows the same line: \"We have
no quarrel with the Iraqi people.\" I\'m sure half a
million Iraqi parents are scratching their heads over
that. I\'m an American tired of lies. And with our
government, it\'s mostly lies.
The history taught in our schools is scandalous. We
grew up believing that Columbus actually discovered
America. We still celebrate Columbus Day. Columbus was
after one thing only - gold. As the natives were
showering him with gifts and kindness, he wrote in his
diary, \"They do not bear arms...They have no iron ...
With 50 men we could subjugate them all and make them
do whatever we want.\"
Columbus is the perfect symbol of US foreign policy to
this day.This is a racist and imperialist war. The
warmongers who stole the White House (you call them
\"hawks\", but I would never disparage such a fine bird)
have hijacked a nation\'s grief and turned it into a
perpetual war on any non-white country they choose to
describe as terrorist.
To the men in Washington, the world is just a giant
Monopoly board. Oddly enough, Americans generally know
how the government works. The politicians do everything
they can for the people - the people who put them in
power. The giant industries that are polluting our
planet as well as violating human rights worldwide are
the ones nearest and dearest to the hearts of American
But in wartime people lose their senses. There are
flags and yellow ribbons and posters and every media
outlet is beating the war drum and even sensible people
can hear nothing else. In the US, God forbid you should
suggest the war is unjust or that dropping cluster
bombs from 30,000ft on a city is a cowardly act. When
TV satirist Bill Maher made some dissenting remarks
about the bombing of Afghanistan, Disney pulled the
plug on him. In a country that lauds its freedom of
speech, a word of dissent can cost you your job.
I read in a paper here about a woman who held out the
part of her taxes that would go to the war effort.
Something like 17%. I like that idea, though in the US
it would have to be more like 50%. If you consider
money as a form of energy, then we see half our taxes
and half the US government\'s energy focused on war and
weapons of mass destruction.
Over the past 30 years, this amounts to more than ten
trillion dollars. Imagine that money going to
preserving rainforest or contributing to a sustainable
economy (as opposed to the dinosaur tit we are
currently in the process of sucking dry).
I give in to Woodman, and we stop for a few beers. He
asks me what I\'d do in Bush\'s shoes. Easy: I\'d honour
Kyoto. Join the world court. I\'d stop subsidising earth
rapers like Monsanto, Dupont and Exxon. I\'d shut down
the nuclear power plants. So I already have $200bn
saved from corporate welfare. I\'d save another $100bn
by stopping the war on non-corporate drugs. And I\'d cut
the defence budget in half so they\'d have to get by on
a measly $200bn a year. I\'ve already saved half a
billion bucks by saying no to polluters and warmongers.
Then I\'d give $300bn back to the taxpayers. I\'d take
the rest and pay the people teaching our children what
they deserve. I\'d put $100bn into alternative fuels and
renewable energy. I\'d revive the Chemurgy movement,
which made the farmer the root of the economy, and make
paper and fuel from wheat straw, rice straw and hemp.
Not only would I attend, I\'d sponsor the next Earth
Summit. And, of course, I\'d give myself a fat raise.
Woodman drops me at home and I ask if he likes my
ideas. He offers a reluctant \"yes\". As he pulls away he
yells out, \"But I\'d never vote for a man who can\'t
handle a few pints at the end of the day!\"
Woody Harrelson appears in On an Average Day at the
Comedy Theatre, Panton Street, London SW1 until
November 3. Box office: 020-7369 1731.
Guardian Unlimited © Guardian Newspapers Limited 2002
Pardon me ..... but why all this political babble in a sample forum ??
And one comment about the hollywood talking heads ..... just becasue they have the $$$ and the access to the media does not make their opinions anymore substantial than any other armchair-CNN-wannabe-political-analyst.
Please find a forum dedicated to politics and the what not, most of us here really could care less.
The discussion if a new war should be started and for what reason, is not \'politics\'. It is the responsibility for everyone in whose name it is to be fought.
This debate belongs at every dinner table, in every newspaper and magazine, on every TV-channel, on the radio, on the streets, in bars and resturants, and, yes, on this forum.
Thanks Nick, for the courage, and thanks moderators for allowing the room.
<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Ironic. Seems to me a newcomer to a community could be a little less boorish.Originally posted by AJF:
Northernsounds is not a forum for discussing politics!!! Take these discussions elsewhere.
We owe each other a little lattitude in topics of discussion, especially in troubled times. I guess I must be getting old. Seems like just yesterday when most artists embraced free discussion.
If you don\'t like the contents of this thread, feel free to stop reading it. Sheesh.
Or have a look at these:
American Crusade Trading Cards