What libraries are out there that will give me that big choir sound that big hollywood action movie composers like Hans Zimmer and Trevor Rabin have? I\'m interested in finding out what they use to create the sounds that were used in the Rock and movies like that. Great for Vid Game stuff I\'m sure
is there a specific one out of the top libraries that focus on these types of sounds. I know SOV is supposed to be great in all areas, but I\'m looking for a specific type of sound, kind of whats in many Keyboard/Synth patches for choir, but bigger. I\'ll get SoV soon enough since I did hear an do like the Boys Choir sounds
I\'m sure there are lot of sample libraries out there which aren\'t available on normal market. Everyone can hear that SOV is so-so quality, nothing really good, very synthetic, etc. And in many films and computer games, there are many of synth/sample libr. sounds so far much better sounding than SOV, P. Siedlaczek\'s, etc. Yet in games from 1994 (so old) are better choir sounds than SOV is - for example in Betryal at Krondor CD ver. But it\'s the same about other instruments - especially String sections and orchestral percussion.. Just listen for example to track Lucia vs Zophar (Final battle) from game Lunar Eternal Blue, and you will hear so great string section, choir and percussion Vitous or Siedlaczek never can beat. There are really lot of examples - Might&Magic6, Mechwarrior2 and much much more. And sure movies - (synth) choir samples from sountracks like Titanic, are nowhere near where SOV quality is - they\'re about generations better than SOV. This means that Vitous, Siedlaczek for orchestra, SOV for choir are NOT best, neither near the best. But I think to get some of really quality choir sample CDs is very difficult, maybe impossible. The same about strings, orch. percussion, etc.
Hans Zimmer and James Newton Howard qouted Spectrasonics \'Symphony of Voices\' to be the best choir and voices CD made. You can go to \'Time-Space\' and hear the demos of the voices. Brilliant and breathtaking! Female solos, Gregorian monks, vowel to vowel voices, boys choirs, solo boys, voice and choir effects.
The 5 CD set of voices is incredible and is a wopping 600 bucks!
I hope I win on I-won to get it. LOL
Actually I\'ve worked with SOV before on a project. It was to help a friend on a project he was working on. I spet some time cleaning up the choir sound, with editing and filtering and crossfading. I loved the way it sounded, but I didn\'tget a chance to hear the full library, only the stuff he laid down . I did some really neat tricks and got some VERY realistic sounding choir sounds. I\'m looking for the stuff that Trevor Rabin and the like use tho. You can tell they are fake choirs, or samples but they sound the same on EVERYONE\'s stuff, so I know they are definately not custom samples.
I also know that many people make their own custom samples, especially people in the Vid Game market just because of distribution and liscensing issues. I may end up doing some of this on bigger Projects,....one day. As for right now, I have to take it easy on the rentig of gear and musicians so I make sure that I have enough to live on. If I got a few projects every year, I\'d be all over it!
Damon, what you\'re saying about SOV is surely what Spectrasonics want us to think about quality of SOV. But the reality is very different. There are so so much movie soundtracks and video games out there with better synth/sample libr. choir sounds than SOV; so it\'s more then clear SOV can\'t be best. I think better than to belive publicity from Hans Zimmer etc. and demos with expensive effect processors used, is to hear other choir sounds yourself. For example in Titanic soundrack track 3 Southampton there is a lot of synth choir used and the quality is so much better than SOV (even than SOV with hard effecing). Tell me your opinion on SOV after you listen choir sounds from games Mechwarrior 2, Betrayal at Krondor, Lunar Eternal Blue, Might&Magic 6... They are all different sounds and samples, but every of them sounds far better than SOV.
KingIdiot, editing, filtering and crossfading can improve quality of sounds, but from thin flat choir samples can never make really great \'live-like\' choir. On the contrary great, clear samples of choir needn\'t too much effecting or editing and nevertheless sound great and breathtaking. I absolutely understand you need better samples than SOV. As you told about Trevor Rabin samples, they surely aren\'t custom samples as well as many other sounds from movies, games, etc. I think even the libraries from video games are not mostly custom, it\'s rather an exception.
I\'m almost falling out of my chair, laughing while reading Dis\' comments on Symphony of Voices. What are you going on about man? are you confusing SoV with something else, or are you just plain tonedeaf? I can agree to a certain extent that SoV sounds mellow and soft, but Peter Siedlaczek\'s classical choir is called for when a stronger sound is needed. Your remark on James Horner\'s titanic, about the synth choir sounding way better than SoV does, has GOT to be most ridiculous thing I\'ve heard since the bible, and it leaves me wondering if you even know what a choir is. And regarding the titanic choir... who on earth convinced james horner to go with that stupid choir synth line? It completely ruins the music. He should have left it out, or used a real choir instead, or even PS\'s classical choir! Then you\'re going on and on about the choir sound of the old rpg games, and if that is your idea of a good choir sound....
You can indeed get the thick choir sound (or close at least) used in so many of zimmer\'s scores, (trevor rabin used SoV in armageddon so don\'t give me that \"Spectrasonics wants you to think...\" crap.) but it takes a fair amount of work. First you have to remember that a choir alone doesn\'t sound nearly as full and grand as when mixed with the full orchestra. Depending on how it is mic\'ed, it generally lacks alot in the lower frequencies (being limited by the natural frequency register of the voice . If your choir sequence sounds thin and doesn\'t quite break through in the mix, don\'t get tempted to crank up the volume. It would sound unatural if the choir seems louder than the orchestra. You could have layered the whole chord badly. A typical error is keyboard chord layering, with octaves in the bass and the chord with your right hand. If you aren\'t too familiar with choral harmonizing and orchestration, chances are you\'ll benefit from a book. There sure isn\'t anything wrong with peter siedlaczek\'s classical choir and SoV. Hans Zimmer\'s choir parts are accompanied by a very large sounding orchestra (skillfully mixed with unquestionably great samples). Peter Siedlaczek\'s extended classical choir library should work fine for your needs, as it is a bit rougher and crispier than SoV, but be prepared to experiment some with harmonies and orchestration.
(sorry for my bad English)
Hm.. I think Horner\'s Titanic synth choirs sound great. Sure, they sound a bit synthetic, but it\'s purpose. They bring great atmhosphere to soundtrack as well as many other synth instruments used. If you\'re saying: \"who on earth convinced james horner to go with that stupid choir synth line? It completely ruins the music. He should have left it out, or used a real choir instead, or even PS\'s classical choir!\" - then the only thing could came on my mind is, that you don\'t understand Horner\'s Titanic music completely.
I think copmaring Horner\'s synth choir to Siedlaczek\'s must be a joke. Siedlaczek\'s choir sounds so crappy, unnaturaly and synthetic and absolutely out of depth - if it would be used instead of original \"Titanic\" choir, it would completely ruin the soundtrack.
I agree SOV sounds fine if it is properly mixed with quality instruments (real orchestra sounds etc.), but if you load a instrument from SOV into an Akai sampler it sounds thin (that still may be OK) but also completely out of depth. And also a bit synthy (not as Siedlaczek\'s choir but enough). On the contrary choirs from games like Betrayal at Krondor or Lunar Eternal blue sound far more naturalistic than SOV - there are crystal clear sampled Aahs which sound realy like clear realistic impressive human voices and not like SOV or Siedlaczek\'s strange sounds. I will try to explain it as simple as possible:
Major differences between SOV and choirs from games like Betrayal at Krondor or Lunar Eternal Blue are:
The samples (waveforms) of Lunar (Krondor and many others) choir are far more naturalistic than SOV ones (more close to real human Aahs).
Choir sounds of Lunar has strong sound and great depth itself (not fake by expensive effects processors), SOV and Siedlaczek has none - even with medium quality effects processors they sound still out of depth and unnaturally, they sound good only with very expensive processors or in a mix with quality instruments (esp. real instruments).
Lunar choir has great expression - yet very simple tune could have great atmosphere thanks to it, \'cos samples sound great not only in a big mix, but also in almost solo passages, thanks to samples depth and strong sound.
Lunar choirs sound very \"live\", SOV and PS cold and unnatural (if not passed through some very good effect processing)
Still a note about comparing SOV and \"Titanic\" synth choir: In this case \"Titanic\" choir sounds a bit synthier than SOV, but it has great, fat strong sound and expression SOV or PS could never have even with effects, great sample balance and programming (superb attacks etc.). It sounds like a lead instrument and nevertheless sounds a little synthier than SOV, it sounds more natural than SOV and especially P. Siedlaczek\'s choir thanks to its general sound.
It can be simplified very easy: Named game music\'s choir samples generally sounds \"MAJESTIC\" , with expression and \"live\" feeling and bring emotions to music tunes thanks to its great nature. On the contrary SOV and PS sound cold, like flat samples without real depth. Sure SOV sounds are good, but need very massive effect processing and mix with good sounding instruments, otherwise sound flat and without expression.
Note: I think your opinions are as they are because though you really good know SOV and PS, you don\'t know very well choir sounds from Lunar Eternal Blue, Betrayal at Krondor etc. I think it would be a good idea to very datail acquant with some named game choir sounds than to automatically lower them.
I\'m sure and agree that with SOV very good results could be obtained, but it needs complicated mixing, effecting etc. But many other choir sounds (as named above and much more) has far more creative sounds, with great expression in basic tones, not cold sounding, not out of depth..
The more you talk about these game-music choirs, the more interested I become. But first let me clearify my thoughts regarding the Titanic choir:
I understand perfectly well what Horner is trying to achieve with this synthy choir. It has an immediate attack and works fairly well for the musical part it is written. The fact still remains. He shouldn\'t have used that synth choir. It is a horrible choir sound for starters. It has weird attack and release times (none actually), and it would have sounded much better with a real choir (which would have given the line some consistency and smoothness) and while we\'re at it, there\'s a male \"zommm\" which brings strong resemblance to the \"zomm\" samples in Peter Siedlaczek\'s classical choir... hmmm Anyways I\'d be really interested in hearing some samples of those computer game choirs you are talking about. Are you sure they aren\'t just recordings lifted straight out of some choral works? It could very well be. You say they have dynamics and expressiveness like real choirs. I\'m pretty sure there aren\'t any better alternatives to the commercial choir libraries available to us today, and they are working great for me. I myself could never wish for another library. I think both of the libraries sound equally impressive, although I tend to prefer the classical choir over SoV. I don\'t agree with your claims that expensive effect processors enhance the sound. I sometimes find my old zoom reverb box to sound better than the pcm 80 box! You can\'t use any of the orchestra libraries without reverb, but that goes without saying. They are highly dependent on a reverb unit. Doesn\'t have to be expensive though. I still think your impressions of the \"expressive and warm\" choir sounds are a little out of focus. Usually when you play with a keyboard choir patch, voices have been mixed together. Female and male on the same key. This might give the impression of a fuller and broader sound, but it doesn\'t sound like a choir as soon as you start playing around and no matter how hard you try, you\'ll never achieve a realistic choir sound. With SoV or Classical Choir you can fool people into thinking it\'s a real choir and not a synth. The synth choir in Titanic didn\'t fool me, and if you ask me he could have written the part for any kind of mellow warm synthpad, and set the release and attack times to 0. Then it would be more obvious that he was going with a synth line, intentionally for the sound of it. I remember when i first heard that choir in Titanic. I was pretty baffled that such an established composer would resort to such lousy samples when he had a real choir at his disposal. That part frankly annoys me, and although I agree that neither SoV nor Classical Choir would have cut it, he\'d be better off using a real choir or leaving it out. Don\'t get me wrong. I\'m not bashing horner. I love his music and he writes great themes. I just can\'t stand it when composers stack poor sounding synth lines on top of their beautiful orchestral recording. It\'s like making the final touches to a lovely oil-painting with crayons!
[This message has been edited by Thomas_J (edited 08-23-2000).]
well can some one tell me what will help me?. I of course think that getting all the choir soudns I can sand mixing and layering will be the key...not to mention hiring a choir and sampling....but I\'d like to know where the best place to starts is.
as for vid game music.....being in the Cosnole Market for 11 years I\'ve come to find what I like i the \"sampled\" market
Most of the game stuff that uses internal Sound RAM hav VERY BAD loop points, BUT to think with what they deal with are GREAT!!! The Finaly Fantasy and SQUARE games sound GREAT! but hte sound designers have been at it for YEARS, and have really got a science down with kilobyte and sound quality.
A couple of the things I\'ve been impressed with have been with either \"demo CD\" or \"public domain\" tracks, or stuff that has beeen recording by real choirs. ... HOWEVER the Hans Zimmer and Rabin stuff that is TOTALLY samples soudns great. I love th \"HOLLYWOOD sound\" for the gmae stuff and I want to capitolize before Metal Gear Solid takes the whole market by storm.......
atleast budgets for music are getting bigger......or enogh to make me live