• Register
  • Help
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 27

Topic: Perfect Pitch? Neuroscience in music? and more???

Share/Bookmark
  1. #1

    Arrow Perfect Pitch? Neuroscience in music? and more???

    i just heard something on the radio the other day and i had to share it with everyone. it is honestly one of the coolest things i've ever heard, and seeing as its all about music i thought, why not share it with everyone here?

    the show is broken up into segments, and they are all incredibly interesting. the first is about how we sing in normal speech without realizing it and goes into tonal languages (mandarin chinese). they realized that something like 75% of people in beijing have perfect pitch, and its probably due to the way they talk.

    the second is about the neuroscience behind why certain sounds make us feel certain emotions (this is probably the coolest part). they actually recorded the electrical signals going on in your brain when you hear perfect fifths as opposed to minor seconds and stuff. they used this to try and explain the riots after Stravinsky played the Rite of Spring at its opening in Paris.

    there are some other things in it that are fascinating as well, but i don't want to ruin it for anyone wanting to listen. anyway, the show is from Radio Lab thats on NPR in most places (i know i just posted another Radio Lab link the other day, but this was too good to pass up). i really hope you all find this as incredible interesting as i did, and if anyone knows any specifics about this stuff please do share.

    enough of my jibba jabba ==> Episode Link, .mp3 file
    -Keith Fuller

    http://keithfullermusic.com
    ---
    iMac Quad i7 * MacBook Pro * Logic Studio 9 * WD 320GB & 1TB Externals@7,200RPM * Presonus Firebox * M-Audio Axiom 25 & Keystation 61 * Rode NT1-A * Epiphone Hollowbody * Fender Amp * KRK Rokit 8's

  2. #2

    Re: Perfect Pitch? Neuroscience in music? and more???

    Quote Originally Posted by keithjfuller
    after Stravinsky played the Rite of Spring at its opening in Paris.
    Aw come on. If weird intervals caused riots, then 20th century would be full of wars and violenc ... e ... um ... er .. uh, lemme read that part again

    BTW: Perfect pitch? I've beein to China and heard them do karaoke. No offence to Chinese members of this forum, there was no evidence of perfect pitch in any karaoke bar.

  3. #3

    Re: Perfect Pitch? Neuroscience in music? and more???

    Quote Originally Posted by Aziraphal
    Aw come on. If weird intervals caused riots, then 20th century would be full of wars and violenc ... e ... um ... er .. uh, lemme read that part again
    i'm assuming you simply read what i wrote as opposed to listening to the show, so i'll go ahead and explain that. no one is saying that it is weird intervals that caused the riots, it was the fact that it was something peoples' brains couldn't figure out.

    what they showed is that when you hear sounds the neurons in your auditory cortex fire electrical signals (which they recorded). when you hear something thats familiar or consonant the signals sound like they have a steady beat and not much happens. BUT, this is the cool part, when you hear dissonant or unfamiliar sounds they start firing off very sporadically, and you can actually hear the difference in the electrical signals. now after a little while, usually very quickly the pattern becomes normal. this is because your brain is learning to accept the sounds and find patterns in them. it is your cortical fugal network that actually changes the chemistry of your neurons in an attempt to figure out these noises.

    if your brain can't figure it out the neurons start giving off dopamine to calm you down. the problem is if it goes on for too long, too much dopamine is released and it has an adverse effect. it causes a small stint of schizophrenia - literally schizophrenia.

    so, what the show is saying is that up until this point no one had even heard anything like this before. they had been listening to the Romance Era composers, and were going into this assuming the same. when the Rite of Spring became loud and dissonant it never returned to a "normal" state, it just kept going like that. they think that people were soooo distracted by the fact that it was something they had never heard before that their brains couldn't find any music in it. and after 3, 4, then 5 minutes of complete dissonance and loud rhythmic garbage in their ears they couldn't take it. their brains had release way too much dopamine in an attempt to calm them down and they rioted. and they literally rioted - hitting people, throwing things, screaming, yelling, etc. the police had to come in and calm everything down. and all because of the music.

    now whats interesting also is that less than a year later Stravinsky returned to the same theater and had the Rite of Spring performed again. it was sold out and he received a standing ovation. people then proceeded to pick him up on their shoulders and carry him out. so what happened differently this time? people came into it knowing what to expect. they weren't thrown off guard thinking they were going to see something completely different. (imagine if when the last lord of the rings came out it was just 3+ hours of car crashes and violent images with hammering going on. people would have gone nuts, literally nuts. but after a week or so, when everyone found out it wouldn't have a crazy effect on them).

    so in short, it was just the fact of something crazy and new that drove people off the deep end, not the fact that it had dissonance and strange intervals.
    -Keith Fuller

    http://keithfullermusic.com
    ---
    iMac Quad i7 * MacBook Pro * Logic Studio 9 * WD 320GB & 1TB Externals@7,200RPM * Presonus Firebox * M-Audio Axiom 25 & Keystation 61 * Rode NT1-A * Epiphone Hollowbody * Fender Amp * KRK Rokit 8's

  4. #4

    Re: Perfect Pitch? Neuroscience in music? and more???

    Even after all these years, every time I hear a Madonna song, I feel like bashing someone's head.

    Rob

  5. #5

    Re: Perfect Pitch? Neuroscience in music? and more???

    And again, let us clear up the myth regarding the first performance of Sacre du Printemps:

    The "riot" was due to the dreadful choreography, and the fact that the dancers were completely lost (try counting to 13 in Russian... not easy to do fast). It had NOTHING, and I will repeat for emphasis N-O-T-H-I-N-G to do with the dissonance of the music.

    Sacre du Printemps was performed "sans danse" a few months later to HUGE success. It has remained a VERY popular concert work ever since.

    Please, can we once and for all put to rest this myth of Sacre du Printemps' riots being caused by the music itself.

    And to add more detail to the story... PART of the riot was due to SOME people whistling and cat-calling, while other were screaming "bravo". The "riots" in fact broke out as a result of fights between audience members, and not as a direct result of the music.

  6. #6

    Re: Perfect Pitch? Neuroscience in music? and more???

    Quote Originally Posted by qccowboy
    And again, let us clear up the myth regarding the first performance of Sacre du Printemps:

    The "riot" was due to the dreadful choreography, and the fact that the dancers were completely lost (try counting to 13 in Russian... not easy to do fast). It had NOTHING, and I will repeat for emphasis N-O-T-H-I-N-G to do with the dissonance of the music.

    Sacre du Printemps was performed "sans danse" a few months later to HUGE success. It has remained a VERY popular concert work ever since.

    Please, can we once and for all put to rest this myth of Sacre du Printemps' riots being caused by the music itself.

    And to add more detail to the story... PART of the riot was due to SOME people whistling and cat-calling, while other were screaming "bravo". The "riots" in fact broke out as a result of fights between audience members, and not as a direct result of the music.
    i'm not saying you're right or wrong, but i have always heard otherwise. from music teachers in high school all the way through college i've heard that people rioted because they hated the music. i've also heard that the dancing was bad, because people were yelling and screaming.

    either way this doesn't detract from the point that something went on that caused people to riot for no rational reason. i don't think you can say that it had "N-O-T-H-I-N-G" to do with the music, and it was all the dancing. if that were the case why was it only after a few minutes into the music getting crazy did people start to riot? why wasn't it after the first 2 minutes while the music was still relatively peaceful? maybe the dancing started people getting angry and the music is what really added fuel to the fire until it burst out of control.

    anyway, i'm just curious if you could point out where you heard that it had nothing to do with the music, because i've always heard otherwise.
    -Keith Fuller

    http://keithfullermusic.com
    ---
    iMac Quad i7 * MacBook Pro * Logic Studio 9 * WD 320GB & 1TB Externals@7,200RPM * Presonus Firebox * M-Audio Axiom 25 & Keystation 61 * Rode NT1-A * Epiphone Hollowbody * Fender Amp * KRK Rokit 8's

  7. #7

    Re: Perfect Pitch? Neuroscience in music? and more???

    I say this from reading first-hand retelling of that performance, and from Strawinski's own retelling of the events.
    And if the music WAS so dramatically violent that it could cause a riot, why did the subsequant performance without the dance NOT cause said riot?

  8. #8

    Re: Perfect Pitch? Neuroscience in music? and more???

    Quote Originally Posted by qccowboy
    I say this from reading first-hand retelling of that performance, and from Strawinski's own retelling of the events.
    And if the music WAS so dramatically violent that it could cause a riot, why did the subsequant performance without the dance NOT cause said riot?
    well if you read what i wrote or listened to what i posted then that question is answered. i can understand if you don't agree with it, but i'd like think that neuroscientists kind of know what they are talking about.

    also, the point of the story isn't the Rite of Spring premier, rather what goes on inside your head when you listen to music. this is just being used as a way to try and help explain what happened that night, not the end all be all.

    it would be nice if you would listen to something before you bash it is what i'm trying to say. and sorry i stepped on your toes, i just felt like posting something that i thought was extremely interesting.
    -Keith Fuller

    http://keithfullermusic.com
    ---
    iMac Quad i7 * MacBook Pro * Logic Studio 9 * WD 320GB & 1TB Externals@7,200RPM * Presonus Firebox * M-Audio Axiom 25 & Keystation 61 * Rode NT1-A * Epiphone Hollowbody * Fender Amp * KRK Rokit 8's

  9. #9

    Re: Perfect Pitch? Neuroscience in music? and more???

    Quote Originally Posted by keithjfuller
    well if you read what i wrote or listened to what i posted then that question is answered. i can understand if you don't agree with it, but i'd like think that neuroscientists kind of know what they are talking about. it would be nice if you would listen to something before you bash it is what i'm trying to say. and sorry i stepped on your toes, i just felt like posting something that i thought was extremely interesting.
    what I object to is not the idea of the neurological reaction to various auditory stimuli such as music, or how the brain reacts to consonance/dissonance.

    What I object to is the way the myth of Sacre's first performance gets repeated and ends up being used as a quazi-proof for what would otherwise be very interesting scientific principles.

    Simply because teachers repeat the myth does not make it any less a myth. Besides, since when are neuroscientists references for matter musicological? I'm more likely to believe the composer who was present at the premiere, or the choreographer's biographer, than neuroscientists.

    And if you, in turn, read what I wrote, I did not object in any way to your post of very interesting scientific exploration. I objected to a too often repeated myth, which has taken on a life of its own. I do not disagree that music can (and more than likely DOES) cause measurable neurological responses in subjects.

    And do note, that the repeat performance where Le Sacre was received with enthusiasm by the audience was not because the audience had grown accustomed to the dissonance. It was because it was a "concert version" of the work. Without dance. And chances are, that the audience for a dance show and that for a concert were quite different as well. Things to take into account before jumping on the "Le Sacre is an unrelentingly dissonant work" bandwagon. Unless you haven't listened to the entire score, you would be aware that the work is far from being non-stop dissonance.

  10. #10

    Re: Perfect Pitch? Neuroscience in music? and more???

    Quote Originally Posted by qccowboy
    ...
    What I object to is the way the myth of Sacre's first performance gets repeated and ends up being used as a quazi-proof for what would otherwise be very interesting scientific principles.
    I am reminded of "The Eskimo's hundred words for snow" (or 200 words, or 400 words, depending on which version you've heard.) In fact, they have four words for snow, yet their mythological hundred words for snow is cited as proof of one wacky linguistic theory or another even by people who should know better.
    --gary shannon
    Spooks! - The Movie

Go Back to forum

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •