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Topic: Raid for GS3 as well as one for samples?

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  1. #1

    Raid for GS3 as well as one for samples?

    I've set up a SATA RAID 1 for my samples, and wonder if anyone can tell me if it's worth it setting up one for my GS3 program and system disk as well. I'm using raid for reliability on stage, but I'm not sure if GS3 actually accesses the program disk once it's up and running and you're only playing...not editing gigs. I have trays for two drives, and could easily replace the system disk in case it goes down, but if the sytem disk is used during performance, I'd rather do RAID.

    Another question is whether or not I should invest in a Raid controller rather than use the one on my ASUS P4C800 Deluxe. The motherboard controller is definitely hardware...at least, there are chips on the board that comprise the raid (supports 2 SATA and 2 ATA133.
    Thanks,
    Gabriel
    Last edited by gabriels; 10-18-2007 at 06:58 AM. Reason: additions

  2. #2

    Lightbulb Re: Raid for GS3 as well as one for samples?

    I had the same redundancy concerns as you, and investigated this thoroughly a few years back.

    RAID is useful for one reason only. To make copies of your App.+ O.S. HDD's to have handy as hot swap spares.

    I almost fell for the marketing hype and bought a card, but Supermicro released a great Gigastudio friendly motherboard w/ a RAID 5 adapter card, so I bought it. The end result was a great learning experience, as I often do doubles where I play day and night. So I had some concerns also.

    My design was based on the Scope DSP cards and their GSIF drivers. This set up worked really well w/o any HDD failures or crashes, but I was rolling my racks around all of the time and thought about adding some redundancy. It wasn't until I used it live that I found out how unnecessary it really is.

    First off in a RAID 1 configuration there are 0 benefits. We actually simulated crashes to test it's usefulness when we discovered the downtime during the rebuild is totally unnacceptable, especially on the sample content HDD. But I purchased a hardware SATA RAID cage which was a wise choice, as the HDD's are cooled very efficiently ( Raptors ), and it works quicker to just have each drive created in RAID 1, then disconnect the RAID features and keep the HDD's all together in the cage. You can easily switch the HDD's manually with a very quick period of downtime, as opposed to trying to play sampled content during a re build. Funny thing is, I have used Gigastudio and DSP card based DAW's for 8 years w/o ever having a single performance hindered. But I am prepared thanks to RAID 1 copies which lay in reserve as hot spares. I actually took the O.S. + Apps HDD and removed it from the cage and added a GigaPulse HDD. I still keep the spare close by, but this set up runs flawless. I currently have a 965 based DAW, which will be upgraded to the P35 w/ an E6850 in late December.

    On the other hand, if you are faking your performance and must have 100% stability, due to those overbloated, unstable sequencer apps., there are a couple of choices. Use a hardware sequencer like the QX, or QY series from Yamaha, unless you are faking your vocals also, then a multi-track needs to be added in sync. Or a real RAID configuration with Mission critical performance.

    RAID 3 is the only viable solution, trust me, my friend runs a video archiving facility here in Las Vegas. Time is money, downtime is a loss of a client, and money. So his conclusions are all based on experience.

    Say you are using Cubase, sorry to hear about it, and Gigastudio to play along with the pre recorded tracks. RAID 5 will not be able to re build as fast as the audio you are extracting during this process.

    The only level that offers this kind of performance is RAID 3. It will stream content from HDD's, while the build occurs w/o a hiccup. The downside is 6 HDD's are necessary. Any other level is a false sense of security, unless it's Microsoft Word documents you're worried about. AV apps are quite demanding, so don't fall for the hype. The only feasible solution for a reasonablly priced RAID 3 array is the Revo 64 SATA RAID card.

    By all means buy what you want and try it. You will still need the copies made, and the cage is an excellent way to cool the HDD's. Gigastudio and other DFD apps. give HDD's a real workout nightly.

    One last thing. If you buy a RAID cage like the 4 in 3 Athena, 3Ware, get a foam lined briefacase, and carry your HDD's separately. The benefits are, the waittail cocktresses( Fruedian slip ) will think your really organised, and it will extend the life of your HDD's exponentionally.

    PM me w/ your email address if you wish to see a couple of pics of a shock mounted battle worthy rig, that never crashes, and makes money every week, 24/7.


    Orevua,
    JimmyV

  3. #3

    Re: Raid for GS3 as well as one for samples?

    I still use the raid 0 for the gs3 setup, but only for the samples, IMO not necessary for the program gs3.
    GIGA ORCHESTRA 3.21
    DAW ONE: CPU: 3.4GHz; RAM: 2 GIGS DDR400; Mobo P4 GIGABYTE ;80GIG IDE HD;2 X WD SATA HD Raptors 10KRPM 74GIG in RAID 0;
    M Audio Firewire 410; Midisport 8X8

    Hauptwerk V3
    DAW TWO: CPU: 2.4 GHz Dual Core; RAM 4 gigs DDR2533: MOBO Asrock ConRoeFirex - eSATA2; 2 x SATA 80 GIG, HDs; M Audio Delta 1010 and a Delta 1010LT, soundcards; MOTU Express 128 i/f

  4. #4

    Re: Raid for GS3 as well as one for samples?

    Scope4live and OWJ,
    Thanks for your responses.

    To Scope---

    My understanding was that if one of the drives in a RAID 1 went bad, the other would carry on, but notify you that the other drive had to be rebuilt. I think you're telling me that system is somehow trying to rebuild the damaged drive, and it's getting in the way of the performance. I have enough drives to make the "spares" I'd need in case of a crash, but thought that the swap could be done after a performance (given that the other drive doesn't go bad as well). In that event, I suppose I could use my trays and put a non-RAID drive with samples in temporarily.
    I suppose you're using the RAID as a super-Norton Ghost, so that your sample set is up to date, even if you add samples at various dates.

    No faking...everything is live. No sequencers...what I manage to play is what comes out the speakers.

    6 drives is a bit much, so I'd probably forgo the RAID 3 option unless I have really bad experiences with other solutions.

    So my question is about the rebuild, and whether or not there is some option to defer rebuild until after a performance.

    to OWJ--
    So, is your understanding that if the system disk with GS3 program goes down, you'd still be able to play?

    Thanks to both of you,
    Gabriel

  5. #5

    Re: Raid for GS3 as well as one for samples?

    Quote Originally Posted by gabriels
    Scope4live and OWJ,
    Thanks for your responses.

    To Scope---

    My understanding was that if one of the drives in a RAID 1 went bad, the other would carry on, but notify you that the other drive had to be rebuilt. I think you're telling me that system is somehow trying to rebuild the damaged drive, and it's getting in the way of the performance. I have enough drives to make the "spares" I'd need in case of a crash, but thought that the swap could be done after a performance (given that the other drive doesn't go bad as well). In that event, I suppose I could use my trays and put a non-RAID drive with samples in temporarily.
    I suppose you're using the RAID as a super-Norton Ghost, so that your sample set is up to date, even if you add samples at various dates.

    No faking...everything is live. No sequencers...what I manage to play is what comes out the speakers.

    6 drives is a bit much, so I'd probably forgo the RAID 3 option unless I have really bad experiences with other solutions.

    So my question is about the rebuild, and whether or not there is some option to defer rebuild until after a performance.

    to OWJ--
    So, is your understanding that if the system disk with GS3 program goes down, you'd still be able to play?


    Thanks to both of you,
    Gabriel


    No , if the system disk dies, the Windows will just crash freeze, whatever; die. Hard Drives are very robust these days, the last HD I lost was a Fujitsu HD and that was over 10 years ago.
    GIGA ORCHESTRA 3.21
    DAW ONE: CPU: 3.4GHz; RAM: 2 GIGS DDR400; Mobo P4 GIGABYTE ;80GIG IDE HD;2 X WD SATA HD Raptors 10KRPM 74GIG in RAID 0;
    M Audio Firewire 410; Midisport 8X8

    Hauptwerk V3
    DAW TWO: CPU: 2.4 GHz Dual Core; RAM 4 gigs DDR2533: MOBO Asrock ConRoeFirex - eSATA2; 2 x SATA 80 GIG, HDs; M Audio Delta 1010 and a Delta 1010LT, soundcards; MOTU Express 128 i/f

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