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Topic: Blüthner digital model one got a great review in SOS

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  1. #1

    Blüthner digital model one got a great review in SOS

    "With its playable, detailed and adjustable sound, Digital Model One is quite possibly the finest virtual piano instrument available." Sound on Sound, november 2007

    A fair review, as far as I can see.

    What´s good with the Blüthner? Well, IMHO the following.

    - Great sound. Samples from a *real* piano = sounds like a real piano.
    - Great response and feel.
    - Flexibility with different tonal qualities, coming from the different impulse responses.
    - It works. It loads with so far *no missing samples*.
    - Not too heavy on system. Does NOT take the latest computer with massive amounts of RAM or harddisc space.
    - Detailed documentation.
    - Very reasonable price for the quality on offer.

    I haven´t tried every virtual piano available myself - but a few! Anyway, the Blüthner from Pro Audio Vault is the best virtual piano I´ve tried.

    If you´re looking for a great virtual piano, do yourself a favor and check it out, http://www.proaudiovault.com/

    Henrik Bergman, Sweden
    not affiliated with PAV in any way, just a happy consumer

  2. #2

    Re: Blüthner digital model one got a great review in SOS

    I agree.It is a well sampled piano.
    But I am disappointed that it lacks sympathetic resonance. This term seems
    to confuse many people though the concept is really quite straight forward
    And being in Konkakt 2 Player platform one cannot add SR script as opposed to Konkakt 2. Maybe many people do not bother about realism (I mean look at the sucess of Ivory),but I prefer to play a virtual piano which imitates
    a real accoustic piano as much as possible.That's why my favourite at the
    moment is Pianoteq. And I am waiting for someone to review the upcoming
    improved version of Galaxy II.

  3. #3

    Re: Blüthner digital model one got a great review in SOS

    Hi,


    This afternoon i will finalize a new overtone script engine.

    If http://www.proaudiovault.com/ send me a free copy of their piano
    , i can find a soluce to add this to their piano.



    Overtones are complex with repedalling :

    for example :

    Play pedal down in a real piano :

    C4 and C5 staccato

    Keep the pedal down and play siltently C3

    Keep C3 down and realase the pedal (pedal up)

    you will hear (thanks to the undampered C3) the C4 and C5 half sustain resonance and overtones, even if the pedal is up.

    Second complex case :

    Play silently C2 F2 Ab2 C3 : (chord) (pedal up)

    keep theis chord down. play staccato others keys in the same tone ( F minor)

    you will hear overtones sound and they sound as sustain samples because
    you have 4 undampered keys.

    now keep always C2 F2 Ab2 C3 down and play the same chord staccato
    one 8' upper.

    And reelase slowly C2 after F2 after Ab2 and after C3,

    the overtone sound change in real time to wet to dry. Because they are less undampered keys in this overtones rule, and the sustain resonance change
    even if the pedal is up !!

    hum.......

    you can reproduce this only in a real piano.

    And you can reproduce this second case :

    http://www.native-instruments.com/fo...t=53967&page=2

    (with my latest unofficial NI AKP Steinway release)

    the first case with repedalling will by ready soon....
    with low CPU.....

  4. #4

    Re: Blüthner digital model one got a great review in SOS

    Thanks for all your work Olivier . Keep us informed .

  5. #5

    Re: Blüthner digital model one got a great review in SOS

    Quote Originally Posted by K-Slash
    Thanks for all your work Olivier . Keep us informed .
    Hi,

    the new engine script with real repedalling overtone is ready.

    It' not CPU overload because the voice management use in realtime
    the global sustain resonance samples or the specific overtone samples.

    And sustain samples and overtones samples are combined and give more depth and a tri-dimensional sustain effect.

    I will post it tonight or monday at the NI AKP forum.



    Olivier

  6. #6

    Re: Blüthner digital model one got a great review in SOS

    I imagine that NI means Native Instruments, right ?

    I'll check out this forum.

    Merci .

  7. #7

    Re: Blüthner digital model one got a great review in SOS

    We do have sympathetic resonance they are called Sustain Impulses (10 different impulses to choose from). These impulses do add significant acoustic realism to the overall sound. These impulses work in a global sense and are convolved with the pedal down samples only. These impulses are far more complex and realistic that anything currently in the marketplace. Scripting cannot model sympathetic resonance accurately - one hears some type of "ambient" component which is not what happens when the sustain pedal is activated.

    In the many discussions on this topic no one has pointed out that a major portion of a sympathetic resonance "sound" is not harmonically related to the harmonic series of the tone (pedal down sample) or for that matter any other portion of any other note in the piano ! So no scripting or delay or processing of the original note can simulate this effect because it will always be harmonic - note de-tuning will also not work. Only convolution is going to model this effect accurately. The sustain impulses in the BDMO (via convolution) will give the out of phase non-harmonic components or richness we hear when we press down on the sustain pedal.

    For an absolutely perfect modeling of sympathetic resonance we would need 88 different sustain impulses that would have to be convolved on each triggered pedal down sample. Our computers would have to be 10,000 times faster to model this in real time.

    Note that the BDMO does include variable sustain pedaling.

    Kontakt 3 engine modulation section is suppose to be improved over version 2 - I have not tested this out yet but if it does it will add to the realism.

    Ernest Cholakis
    Numerical Sound/ProAudioVault
    www.numericalsound.com
    www.proaudiovault.com

  8. #8

    Re: Blüthner digital model one got a great review in SOS

    Ernest, it may very well be that completely accurate sympathetic resonance of pedal-up samples cannot be achieved via scripting, but that does not mean that a sampled piano's tone cannot be made more realistic via scripting. The tone should certainly be richer. I think that this is the point of Olivier's sympathetic resonance scripts.

  9. #9

    Re: Blüthner digital model one got a great review in SOS

    Quote Originally Posted by Ernest

    For an absolutely perfect modeling of sympathetic resonance we would need 88 different sustain impulses that would have to be convolved on each triggered pedal down sample. Our computers would have to be 10,000 times faster to model this in real time.


    Ernest Cholakis
    Numerical Sound/ProAudioVault
    www.numericalsound.com
    www.proaudiovault.com
    Hi,

    I don't need IR, and overtones samples can be recorded as the same way than releases samples or sustain samples.

    Why IR ?

    it's not my approach.

    We don't speak about the same thing since the beginning.

    To make overtones simulation i use my ears, and my real grand Piano.

    (My mp9000 is near a real piano and i compare each overtones i've programmed)

  10. #10

    Re: Blüthner digital model one got a great review in SOS

    Quote Originally Posted by Ernest

    In the many discussions on this topic no one has pointed out that a major portion of a sympathetic resonance "sound" is not harmonically related to the harmonic series of the tone (pedal down sample) or for that matter any other portion of any other note in the piano ! Ernest Cholakis

    Numerical Sound/ProAudioVault
    www.numericalsound.com
    www.proaudiovault.com
    i'm disagree with this !

    when you have more than 5 undampered keys (pedal up), you beging to hear the sustain resonance (and the pedal isn't down).

    i've spent more than 300 hours near my real piano, and i can say than
    the overtone you hear when one key is undampered with one of the the 8',5',4',3',7' rules is the same mathematical model when all 88 keys are undampered.

    i don't say that i've a perfect script and real, but it give life to the sound
    because the overtones are part in sound (and not only after the release of each keys)

    And i've found a soluce that sound good with very less CPU, mixing sustain samples, overtones samples (easy to record).

    The Galaxy 2 have good overtones samples.

    The problem is that they are recorded only with the 8' rules (C2 to C3 for example)

    but they are enough real to change the colour of them on the stereo position
    for the other rules they have programmed.

    The others explanations are confidential.

    And nothing to do with IR, even if i'm agree with you that your IR is great
    only when the pedal is always down, but between the pedal donw and up,
    and repedalling it's another story when some keys are still undampered)

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