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Topic: Sleigh Ride (Winter Night) Delius

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  1. #1
    Senior Member Leaf's Avatar
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    Sleigh Ride (Winter Night) Delius

    This is Sleigh Ride (Winter Night) by Frederick Delius, published in 1890.
    http://www.box.net/shared/rajgti8y7d

    The Finale recording is low volume (don't know why) but be careful about turning up too loud, it has some big moments.

    I think the composition has a lot of charm, it seems to be in an outline of goofy/serious/goofy-serious.

    I have been tweaking the overall dynamic range to try to narrow it some, as well as the tweaking dynamics and articulations to try to get it sounding good enough to submit it for possible inclusion in the Garritan Community Christmas Album.

    All instruments are GPO.

    Any help and feed back is welcome.

    Right now it is too much for my mac powerbook and it's logic express, it breaks up and is garbled, so i moved it to windows, but still trying to figure out how to operate Reaper...so this is just directly to wav from Finale, then converted to mp3 with itunes.

    I can't post much between now and Monday night, but will try to get here at least once each evening.

    Thanks in advance.

    David

    PS: This is my first rendering of an existing score by someone else.

  2. #2

    Re: Sleigh Ride (Winter Night) Delius

    Hi, David

    What a great find! I really like this piece and the arrangement.

    And it sounds like you've done a lot of really good work on this too.

    Now for the IMpossibly wide dynamic range - ?! You've already tried to narrow the range? Obviously it needs more, because it sometimes almost disappears, then comes back in at a Huge volume, as you warned us.

    But when you first said the general recording volume was low, I turned down my speakers - but you're right that it doesn't work to do that - LOUD on those "goofy" passages, as you called them.

    Hard to know what exactly is wrong. In Sonar, I use a utility to change a MIDI controller, like cc1 by a percentage, so that when I find an area too soft, I can raise up a large section of music at a time - But I don't know if there's anything quite analogous to that in Finale.

    When I've reached the limit of what I can do with MIDI editing and mixing, I spend just as much time doing audio mixing, automating faders - again, a DAW method.

    AND one more step where dynamics are evened out enough so that hopefully listeners don't have to ride the gain on their speakers' volume knob, is to master my 2-track mixes in Sound Forge, where I can play with the volume some more and use soft compression and "Loudness" tools - again, it's not the sort of thing people do with notation.

    I know there's some kind of mixer in Finale - Are those faders automatable? That would help.

    In other words, I am SO agreeing with you that this fluctuates far too wildly. You Gotta fix it, because it's really a charming piece!

    Randy B.
    (rbowser)

  3. #3

    Re: Sleigh Ride (Winter Night) Delius

    It is a beautiful piece and you are right it varies a bit much. I am a sibelius user so I can't help you there, and I just started to use reaper tonight. It seems like a neat program.

    Ron

  4. #4

    Re: Sleigh Ride (Winter Night) Delius

    A nice arrangement David. The volume thing does seem to be a little problematic. The quiets get to quiet and the louds get to loud. It is very nice work though. Thanks for posting.
    -Jay

  5. #5

    Re: Sleigh Ride (Winter Night) Delius

    We don't hear much of Delius here, David; thank you for
    bringing this by!

    Other than some minor issues perhaps with dynamics, this
    is quite well interpreted and executed.

    Gorgeous piece, isn't it!

    My best,



    David
    www.DavidSosnowski.com
    .

  6. #6

    Re: Sleigh Ride (Winter Night) Delius

    RE: Dynamic range, check the Reaper manual on bundled compression plug-ins. Check the Reaper manual section 9.8 "Volume Control with Compression" on using the ReaComp VST plug-in. I've used it and it easy to learn and does a great job of balancing the dynamic range.
    --gary shannon
    Spooks! - The Movie

  7. #7

    Re: Sleigh Ride (Winter Night) Delius

    David
    I don't think the section are goofy at all.........I really like your use of strings vs the woodsinds and horns.......it lends an over all balance to the work....but yeah like everyone else I was riding my vol control.....I think you have a very good chance to be on the christmas cd......
    cliff
    three year old E machine
    GPO Sibelius Edition (now Liberated!)
    GPO Personal Orchestra
    GPO Jazz Band
    2 Classic Guitar Degrees (or so I was informed)
    Not a lick of sense!

  8. #8

    Re: Sleigh Ride (Winter Night) Delius

    Leaf,
    Plenty good transcription of the work,,,shows a low of attention to detail and accuracy. It is a shame that mm can't get their stuff together to have a usable mixer,,,,it was probably conceived as a gimmic to start with and most finale users have complained about it's non- functionality. Until mm wakes up and does something meanful with it, it will continue to be just another weed in the program.
    If you don't use HP at all, it will give you the capability of exporting each staff/track as a .wav in to a file where it is then possible to import each staff/track into your favorite daws/sequencer for volumn adjustments as well as a host of other functions that finale is incapable of. If you use HP at all it will result in .wav files of unequal length for each stave/track making further work in a sequencer nightmarish. Unfortunately the only way to export finale .mus into .wav files while using hp is a type 2 .mid . It would be good if the guy that does hp for finale would make it a stand alone for vsti so it could be used in our attempt to make realistic performances. So far as I know HP is the best one out there for this.
    It is nice to hear something from Delieus represented here, too many of the composers of this period have been ignored in preference to what everyone hears at the symphony every year. Thanks again and best wishes.
    John

  9. #9
    Senior Member Leaf's Avatar
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    Re: Sleigh Ride (Winter Night) Delius

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser-
    Hi, David

    What a great find! I really like this piece and the arrangement.

    And it sounds like you've done a lot of really good work on this too.


    Thanks for listening and commenting, Randy! I agree it's a great find, as soon as i heard it i loved it, and immediately went to itunes and got three different recordings of it, and they only had three.

    I copied into Finale exactly as written on the score, reworked some Horn hairpins to fade to a custom pppp with velocity of 01, brought some woodwinds up a tad in some places, added an extra Piccolo to strengen it a little, added a few legatos...

    so it's like 97% Delius and anything good i have done so far, i have to thank Gary for the Rimsky Course, and people like You, David Sosnowski, and all the others on this forum for teaching me so much since i started here... and thanks Nickie Fønshauge for the n-Timpani KS EQ and all the help with Finale and Kontakt2.

    This is also the first thing i have done with a full orchestra.

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser-
    Now for the IMpossibly wide dynamic range - ?! You've already tried to narrow the range? Obviously it needs more, because it sometimes almost disappears, then comes back in at a Huge volume, as you warned us.

    But when you first said the general recording volume was low, I turned down my speakers - but you're right that it doesn't work to do that - LOUD on those "goofy" passages, as you called them.

    Hard to know what exactly is wrong. In Sonar, I use a utility to change a MIDI controller, like cc1 by a percentage, so that when I find an area too soft, I can raise up a large section of music at a time - But I don't know if there's anything quite analogous to that in Finale.

    When I've reached the limit of what I can do with MIDI editing and mixing, I spend just as much time doing audio mixing, automating faders - again, a DAW method.

    AND one more step where dynamics are evened out enough so that hopefully listeners don't have to ride the gain on their speakers' volume knob, is to master my 2-track mixes in Sound Forge, where I can play with the volume some more and use soft compression and "Loudness" tools - again, it's not the sort of thing people do with notation.
    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser-

    I know there's some kind of mixer in Finale - Are those faders automatable? That would help.

    In other words, I am SO agreeing with you that this fluctuates far too wildly. You Gotta fix it, because it's really a charming piece!

    Randy B.
    (rbowser)


    No automation like that in Finale i'm pretty sure.

    It doesn't sound like i have effected the range much, but the top has come down some even though i don't really know what i'm doing. Before it would blow your hair back and leave a ringing in your ears. The Sfz's i replaced with fz and mp and lowered each end of the big crescendos, when that wasn't enough was about the time i decided i needed to get it into Reaper, had not yet got into bringing the pp's up except for a few ppp's i replaced pp and p.

    I have company coming from out of town and cleaning and have some paperwork i have to finish, busy weakend, but going to cram the Reaper Manual PDF and try the midi editing and soft compression you described. I think i can get it done and seeing the encouragement here sure helps, thankfully Gary extended that deadline.

    Thanks very much for your help and advice.

    David

  10. #10
    Senior Member Leaf's Avatar
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    Re: Sleigh Ride (Winter Night) Delius

    Quote Originally Posted by rolifer
    It is a beautiful piece and you are right it varies a bit much. I am a sibelius user so I can't help you there, and I just started to use reaper tonight. It seems like a neat program.

    Ron
    Thanks for listening, Ron. Yes i think it is going to be a very neat program. I clicked the link on that main site that is for themes forum and downloaded a theme Ted Warigo Orange Logic.rar, which looks awesome, but of course i'm not going to learn how to install that until i first get learning the program and using it accomplished. Check out that theme i think you'll like it.

    David

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