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Topic: Guitar sustain

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  1. #1
    Senior Member rpearl's Avatar
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    Guitar sustain

    Using the JABB Nylon string guitar, I don't seem to be able to get any decent sustain. Increasing the Length in KP2 seems to make no noticeable difference. Would I be better off using a MIDI message? I am using KP2 in Sibelius - all that works fine, it's just that the nylon guitar dies soooo quickly. Any thoughts?

    Thanks,
    Ron Pearl

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  2. #2

    Re: Guitar sustain

    Hi, Ron

    Your post made me want to check things out on my computer, so I opened up KP2 stand-alone, and loaded the Acoustic Guitar. Changing the Length knob made a rather distinct difference - It defaults to 52, and changing the value to a higher one yields the expected result of a longer tail to the sound's decay after releasing the key.

    SO - hummm, there's something wrong in the way your KP2 is working?

    You asked if you should use a MIDI message. Even if this Length control was working for you the way it should, the answer would be a definite Yes you should use a MIDI message. CC21 controls the Length, and it's best used at different amounts throughout a piece, so the result matches each passage in question--shorter length for fast passages, longer length for slower ones.

    But have you cranked that knob all the way to 127 and listened to what happens when you release the key? I take it you've done that.

    I do have a suggestion for getting a more realistic guitar sound, with the notes ringing out more the way you want - Hand editing each note duration so it's slightly longer than what is literally called for. I'm actually not sure that's possible in Sibelius, but it's the sort of editing I've done to good effect in Sonar.

    Randy B.
    (rbowser)

  3. #3
    Senior Member rpearl's Avatar
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    Re: Guitar sustain

    Randy,

    Thanks for the reply. I did try using ~C21, all the way up to 127 - no difference than if it were set to 0. I can change the duration, but I don't know if that will help, as a whole note dies too quickly, anyway - increasing the duration on quarters might not have any perceptible effect. But I will try it. Everything else with KP2 responds - the tuning, variation knobs, etc: all have immediately changes that are easily heard.

    Thanks for chiming in. I know there is an answer here, and it may be so simple that it is under my nose. Gotta keep looking.

    Yours,
    Ron Pearl

    Website:

    ronaldmpearl.com

    myspace:

    http://myspace.com/rmpearl

  4. #4

    Re: Guitar sustain

    Maybe you two are talking about different things. CC#21 - and the length knob - controls only the release tail, which is the part of the sample playing after note off. The decay/sustain part - the part playing while the note is held - can not be prolonged. What you hear, if you keep the key depressed until the sound has died away, is the entire sample, and that is all you get. No controller can change that.

  5. #5
    Senior Member rpearl's Avatar
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    Re: Guitar sustain

    Nickie,

    Thanks for the clarification. I did try increasing the length via the knob, and yes, when I test it with the Kontakt keyboard, it does have an effect. I suspect the issue is that the samples, themselves, are short. Your input has cleared this up. Many thanks!
    Ron Pearl

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    ronaldmpearl.com

    myspace:

    http://myspace.com/rmpearl

  6. #6

    Re: Guitar sustain

    Thanks, Nickie

    Yes indeed, as I said in my reply, I was talking about what happens after you release the key.

    I'm glad you can hear what I was talking about, Ron - the longer decay of a note after Note Off. - I didn't realize you were trying to get the notes themselves to stay sustained longer - Hmmm, a guitar string can only sustain so long!--and it seems like the sample length is realistic in that sense.

    I do think, however, that there's a limit to how successful the JABB Guitar can be as a prominent instrument. The samples for it aren't terribly complex, like the samples in the Real Guitar instrument for instance. But of course that library costs something like $200 for the one instrument, so it better sound great!

    Randy B.
    (rbowser)

  7. #7
    Senior Member rpearl's Avatar
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    Re: Guitar sustain

    Randy,

    I'm not trying to get the guitar to do anything it can't: I am guitarist, so I have a good idea of what it possible. It is just that the decay is so rapid/noticeable that it really isn't usable, except as background. You are right, for $200, but then look at GPO - we don't say that about the woodwinds, the brass, etc. Everything else I have done with GPO has sounded good - while people can tell it is not the "real" thing, they are very complimentary about the quality of Gary's sounds; not so the JABB guitar. I posted a guitar quartet, and many of the comments were in regards to the sound - not the reverb, pan, etc., but the guitar, itself. I may be trying to make something happen that is not possible with these samples - if that is the case, fine. I just don't want to overlook something that I could do with them to improve the resulting audio.

    Thanks for your help/feedback/all-around-good-guyness.
    Ron Pearl

    Website:

    ronaldmpearl.com

    myspace:

    http://myspace.com/rmpearl

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