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Topic: Dynamics

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  1. #1

    Dynamics

    Hi all!

    I've been wondering since purchasing GPO why CC#1,0 is not completely silent. It certainly sounds better in some orchestral pieces to modulate from zero(no sound) to 64 or what ever. CC#1,10 is not much loader than CC#1,0. May be things could be better, There are work arounds, but why make things harder than they should be?

    David

  2. #2

    Re: Dynamics

    Hi, David

    I think I remember reading that the relative volume via cc1 was changed during an upgrade of GPO - that originally it actually went down to true Zero, no sound when you were at Zero cc1. But it was changed possibly because the #1 problem new users had was hearing No sound - due to not understanding how cc1 works with Garritan - and that way they at least heard Something. ---Or am I making all of that up--?

    BUt - I don't know what kind of host software you're using, but with a DAW, like Sonar which I use, MIDI control editing is only half the job. After doing all I can with cc1 and the rest of the controllers, the really fine tuning can only be done in a sound mixer, with the audio tracks. If I really need completely Zero volume, it's easily achieved via a mixer fader's automation.

    ---In most music - it's impossible for an instrument to fade from absolutely nothing. To do that is an unnatural recording effect - Not that I don't do it--just another thought.

    Randy B.
    (rbowser)

  3. #3

    Re: Dynamics

    Hi Randy!

    It seems logical to have zero, mean zero.
    Most of my composing is done in Encore 3( which is far from ideal in my opinion. It cost me £419 in 1993.and on a 3 ½ floppy ). I am experimenting with demo versions of Sibelius and Sonar. Unfortunately I can’t spend the time for composing that I would like. I’m painting most of the time. At the moment purchasing Sebilius or Sonar might not be justifiable. But I enjoy the impressive results from you and others and amazed what can be achieved.

    Your post has been useful. I will need to find out how to use the mixer fader automation control in Sonar. Its quite a complex piece of software for a beginner.

    David

  4. #4

    Re: Dynamics

    Hello again, David

    If playing a keyboard appeals to you more than inserting notes by hand, then I certainly recommend Sonar. There Is an awful lot there in the program, so yes, it can be overwhelming.

    I can direct you to what I was talking about:

    In the main Track view, when you have selected a track just by clicking its number, the default layout has that track's mixer channel to the left of the screen. Obviously, grabbing and moving the fader up and down plays with the volume. - The other option is go to the Console View where all the faders can be seen in the mixer layout.

    Right click over the center of the fader and you'll have the option to turn on the record automation option.

    Up in the Transport (the tape deck style controls, play, stop, rewind etc) - the far right icon will turn red, indicating that record automation has been activated.

    Now when you play the project, any movements you make on that fader will be recorded and played back with the music. If you make a mistake, just stop and re-set your Now Time to before the error, and go again.

    You can get more precise results by right clicking on the horizontal track itself and ask for a Volume Envelope--then you bend the resulting line in any manner you want by clicking on the line, adding nodes, and moving them where you want.

    Both methods automate the playback of that track's volume.

    That's the way to get sophisticated, detailed mixes.

    IMPORTANT NOTE: I'm talking about the Audio tracks in Sonar. If you want this kind of automation on an un-bounced MIDI track, you apply it to the associated Audio VST track. Some people work with the MIDI faders, but it's recommended that you don't.

    But this is the way to get complete silence if you want, instead of the low volume which Zero gives you when only using cc1. Another big benefit is that you actually get a larger dynamic range this way also.

    Maybe you can find some time to play with those features in your Sonar demo.

    One more thing - The Home Studio version of Sonar is much less expensive than the full blown version, and offers plenty of power for home recording. That's what I use, and I don't feel I'm missing out on anything I need. You may want to think about that program, looking at the Cakewalk site for more info.

    Randy B.
    (rbowser)

  5. #5

    Re: Dynamics

    Hi David, as Randy already said there is always a starting volume (CC#1) of any instrument. You can not start a trumpet with almost nothing, there must be at least a flow or air to begin with. The same with strings and piano (etc).

    This initial blow, bow or touché is called Velocity, but with GPO is has to have some initial CC#1 value, one higher than another depending on the instrument.

    My five cents (inflation, you know).

    Raymond

  6. #6

    Re: Dynamics

    Hi Randy!,

    Thanks for the clear explanation on the use of the automation function. It seems a very powerful tool indeed. Yes, I will certainly check out the Cakewalk site.

    IMPORTANT NOTE: I'm talking about the Audio tracks in Sonar. If you want this kind of automation on an un-bounced MIDI track, you apply it to the associated Audio VST track. Some people work with the MIDI faders, but it's recommended that you don't.

    But this is the way to get complete silence if you want, instead of the low volume which Zero gives you when only using cc1. Another big benefit is that you actually get a larger dynamic range this way also.
    Thats useful information to know.


    As always you’re a great credit to this forum.

    David

  7. #7

    Re: Dynamics

    You can not start a trumpet with almost nothing, there must be at least a flow or air to begin with.
    Hi Raymond!

    I'm aware that you can't start from nothing. I wanted to have a string section increase from silence gradualy reaching CC#1,64. e.g 0 < mf > 0. I think there is a Sibelius plugin to do that, but the result is ppp < mf > ppp < ff > ppp. and where the ppp's are, it needs to be completely silent( silence is golden ). etc. To get better audio control as Randy explained many times on this forum, its better to go down the sequencer route.

    Thanks for the post.

    David

  8. #8
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    Re: Dynamics

    GPO has never been able to go down to nothing. Only down to about a ppp setting. I remember this from beta testing the original GPO many years ago!

    You can change this setting in Kontakt if you have the full version or you need to able the CC7/CC10 option for this instrument to go all the way to nothing using a combination of CC7 and CC1.

    Jim

  9. #9

    Re: Dynamics

    Hi Jim!

    Yes, I had considered using cc7 with cc1. Thanks Jim, I didn't know you had the option to change the setting in the full Kontakt.

    David

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