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Topic: EastWest Steinway B perfect, except....

  1. #1

    EastWest Steinway B perfect, except....

    need a little more bright and less softness in the high end. Anyone have this piano and suggestions on which alternative Steinway I might try? Bought this great piano way back in 1998.

    I also would like to know if anyone identifies with my high-end problem. I\'m not a great piano player, and it may be an issue of bad technique. Maybe the best solution is to adjust up velocity settings for the high-end only.


  2. #2

    Re: EastWest Steinway B perfect, except....

    Let me ask my question another way.

    What is the first line of attack to adjust a piano that plays too soft on the high-end, but is ok mid and low end? Would that be the velocity on the keyboard controller, or is there something in giga sampler that would allow me to brighten up and increase velocity on the higher-end keys only? Although I bought the Seinway B sample library 1998, I\'ve only been working with gigasampler for about three months and honestly have no clue how to approach this. My experience with GS is working with the samples as they come, out of the box.


  3. #3

    Re: EastWest Steinway B perfect, except....

    Joanne, you cannot make it brighter unless you darken the mid and low registers with a filter which I don\'t favor.
    However, compared to the higher register the lower has too much loudness impact. I solved this by lowering the volume (attenuation) by a few dBs in the bass register. I\'ve done this by ear so there is no rule you can stick to.

    Alex Cremers

  4. #4
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 1999
    Dallas, Texas

    Re: EastWest Steinway B perfect, except....


    If it\'s an issue of how the piano sounds in the mix, you may want to use some multiband compression or EQ after the fact.

    If John Grant is lurking about, you might also ask him some advice on that piano, since he worked with it for quite a long time. I use that piano for some things as well--it was the best piano sample around for some time, and is still a great sounding library.

    Pianos are so tough, because they vary so much to begin with. Every mix wants a different piano approach, and even with all the pianos we have available today, many of the most standard microphone arrays have still not been produced into a sample library. Anyone who has used the various \"two 414s/TrueAudio\" methodologies on a Yamaha knows EXACTLY what I\'m talking about. When you\'re in the studio with an acoustic piano, you generally invest a number of hours determining the piano sound on a given production, changing mic patterns, moving things one inch this way and that, until the desired sound emerges. With piano libraries, even the modern multi-mic versions, you still don\'t get anything approaching the tonal flexibility of actually moving and switching mics until you get a signature sound for your production.

    Sorry to run on...my 5th of July coffee fest has gone to my brain and fingers. All of this, to ultimately say: Probably if you can\'t solve your mix compatibility issues with track EQ, then your ultimate answer is going to be another library that is closer to the target sound you\'re seeking. You can only bend one (or even three) mic perspectives a very little bit with processing and even instrument re-balancing/mapping before you start eating away at the \"soul\" of the sound. And when you reach that point, it\'s useless.

    Also, for some reason mixes sound better when you\'ve had a lot of Scotch or pot. It wears off, though, so it\'s only a temporary fix.

  5. #5

    Re: EastWest Steinway B perfect, except....

    Hi Alex,

    Lowering the volume and plus slightly increasing velocity on the controller helped somewhat. Thank you for the tip.

    Hi Bruce,

    So glad I caught your coffee high. You\'ve reminded me that it is simply very difficult (impossible at times) to get the perfect piano for a given project. I\'m still searching too for at least one signature piano I can generally be happy with for most situations. You and Alex also pretty much verified that there are no tricks in giga that I\'m simply not aware of to support these type of adjustments.

    Thanks also for the name of the resident expert on this piano. I\'ll try to get his opinion on whether I should try another developer\'s Steinway B or move to a C, which I\'ve never really worked with.

  6. #6

    Re: EastWest Steinway B perfect, except....

    Have you tried a high pass filter on the upper end to brighten it a bit(by simply taking away the bass)? On the other hand, too much of a high pass filter will thin the sound considerably, so you may lose presence.

  7. #7

    Re: EastWest Steinway B perfect, except....

    Hi Joanne,

    Does your controller have a means to change the \'shape\' of the velocity (or maybe it is called velocity curve) On my Yamaha P-300 I can do this. It is not perfect - it is highly dependent on sample library used. Since I don\'t own your Steinway libary I cannot say for sure if this will help for you. If you have this feature on your controller give it a go.

    On my controller, I programmed in about 5 different velocity curves (rock, light jazz, classical, etc.) It\'s not perfect but at least gets me closer to the end desired result. The rest is playing technique and mixing. Good luck to you.


  8. #8

    Re: EastWest Steinway B perfect, except....

    Hi Jake,

    As you said, it causes a loss of presence on the ranges that are good!


    Yes, I think I need to approach this from my controller. I beieve I have the ability to adjust velocity for a particular notes or range of notes...I\'ll check it out.

  9. #9

    Re: EastWest Steinway B perfect, except....


    The EW-Steinway B isn\'t programmed.

    Just 3 velocity up and velocity down.

    You can tweak it.

    Try me free patch :



    and the first demo :


    The best piano for giga :

    EW- Steinway B
    Wstco Steinway C
    Yamaha C7 (Vintaudio)

    You can get a good steinway C at :


    According to me, both Steinway (EW-STB and wstco Steinway) are the best sampled piano.



  10. #10

    Re: EastWest Steinway B perfect, except....

    I\'m a great fan of the Truan Steinway, using it for years (with much tweeking--essentially retuning it, using the bottom two velocities for much of my playing, and adding on top Han\'s MAG piano sample). I actually found the top end a little bright, even strident, which the MAG overlay helped correct.

    But I now much prefer the PMI BOS wet 8 layer sustain sample plus the release sample added on top (so I\'m running two samples, really). Why do I prefer it? For classical it provides what I can only describe as a kind of \"openess,\" \"ambience,\" or \"live recording\" sound which you just can\'t get from the Steinway no matter how carefully you tweek it and/or add verb. Also, the all-important \"timbre\" or \"tone\" of the wet sample notes from top to bottom are much more realistic or accurate on the pmi Bos than one the Steinway.

    Sure, when you move from the Steinway to the Bos wet the Bos initially sounds \"thin.\" Indeed, it may be just a little, I\'m not sure, although there are plenty of top-notch solo piano recordings that sound the same with respect to the \"thinness\" of tone (for want of a better description). But repeated listenings and comparisons has convinced me that if the BOS sounds \"thin\", and I\'m not entirely sure it does, the tone of the Steinway B definitely sounds PROCESSED by comparison. One couldn\'t say that before the pmi BOS came on the market, because in comparison with other samples, the Steinway B sounded so totally accurate, so completely superior.

    But then (inevitably) something better comes along and your ear tells you the difference pretty much within hours. The superior realism and accuracy of the pmi BOS is particularly apparent (at least to my ears) in the very-difficult-to-sample notes from about middle c to an octave below middle c. The Steinway really doesn\'t convince in that thorny range; whereas the Bos wet is wonderful.

    Hence I swithed all my well-tempered at mp3.com to the BOS. Already folks have commented on how much better it sounds.

    It\'s all in the ear, though; so you might want to give some of the stuff at my site a quick listen and determine whether the wet bos is for you.

    I don\'t use the dry BOS samples. They don\'t sound like any piano I\'ve ever played. (My piano at home is an old Kawai model 500 grand).


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