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Topic: Hidden Vibrato not doing anything???

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  1. #1

    Question Hidden Vibrato not doing anything???

    hello everyone, i have a quick question. i was applying the cc17 (hidden vibrato) to the Brass>>Trumpets>>Solo Trumpet 1 and i don't hear any difference at all. i see the knob moving up but there is no difference in the sound.

    i tried holding a really long note and drawing the data up and down but i still couldn't hear anything. am i doing something wrong?? just curious. thanks in advance.
    -Keith Fuller

    http://keithfullermusic.com
    ---
    iMac Quad i7 * MacBook Pro * Logic Studio 9 * WD 320GB & 1TB Externals@7,200RPM * Presonus Firebox * M-Audio Axiom 25 & Keystation 61 * Rode NT1-A * Epiphone Hollowbody * Fender Amp * KRK Rokit 8's

  2. #2
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    Jan 2005
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    Posts
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    Re: Hidden Vibrato not doing anything???

    CC17 works in conjunction with Channel Aftertouch, so you need to apply this too.

    CC17 affects the speed of the vibrato and Channel Aftertouch affects the depth of the vibrato. (I think!???)

    I suggest you experiment in your sequencer/notation program to find the correlation between the two. A simple way to do it is to draw in a value for each (say a value of 64) at the beginning of the piece and listen to the effect on any notes you input after that. If you don't hear any effect on live notes after that it could be that your daw is resetting the values to zero each time the sequencer/notation program stops.

    I hope that helps.

    Regards,

    John

  3. #3

    Re: Hidden Vibrato not doing anything???

    i'm not sure what exactly you mean, but i can say this about the aftertouch. it works fine with the gof and strad, and i can see the vibrato knob in the kontakt player moving around with the data i entered in cc17, but there is no difference in the actual sound. is there something i have to turn on in kontakt to make that data actually affect the sound, because it is obviously reading the data coming from Logic?
    -Keith Fuller

    http://keithfullermusic.com
    ---
    iMac Quad i7 * MacBook Pro * Logic Studio 9 * WD 320GB & 1TB Externals@7,200RPM * Presonus Firebox * M-Audio Axiom 25 & Keystation 61 * Rode NT1-A * Epiphone Hollowbody * Fender Amp * KRK Rokit 8's

  4. #4

    Re: Hidden Vibrato not doing anything???

    Keith, I was ready to say that Mistersynth steered you absolutely right - But your new reply came up.

    When you say, "...i can see the vibrato knob in the kontakt player moving around with the data i entered in cc17..."

    It sounds like you're still trying to get cc17 to do all the work. That's only the speed of the vibrato - It's After Touch which does the actual vibrato.

    In your editing window, you need to ask for After Touch and draw some of that in. --If you've done that and it's still not working--well then, Hummmm.

    Randy B.
    (rbowser)

  5. #5

    Re: Hidden Vibrato not doing anything???

    i'll try that, but i thought what you two are describing with the depth and rate is only with the new strad and gofriller. i didn't think that the older gpo got that advanced. i didn't find anything in the manual about applying two different ccs to get the hidden vibrato (maybe i'm just blind), but i will look into it. thanks for the input so far, i'll keep you updated with my results.
    -Keith Fuller

    http://keithfullermusic.com
    ---
    iMac Quad i7 * MacBook Pro * Logic Studio 9 * WD 320GB & 1TB Externals@7,200RPM * Presonus Firebox * M-Audio Axiom 25 & Keystation 61 * Rode NT1-A * Epiphone Hollowbody * Fender Amp * KRK Rokit 8's

  6. #6

    Re: Hidden Vibrato not doing anything???

    i see now. you two were both correct. i needed to apply data to the aftertouch (logic seems to call it channel pressure), but that solved it. thanks for the suggestions.
    -Keith Fuller

    http://keithfullermusic.com
    ---
    iMac Quad i7 * MacBook Pro * Logic Studio 9 * WD 320GB & 1TB Externals@7,200RPM * Presonus Firebox * M-Audio Axiom 25 & Keystation 61 * Rode NT1-A * Epiphone Hollowbody * Fender Amp * KRK Rokit 8's

  7. #7

    Re: Hidden Vibrato not doing anything???

    Quote Originally Posted by keithjfuller
    i'm not sure what exactly you mean, but i can say this about the aftertouch. it works fine with the gof and strad, and i can see the vibrato knob in the kontakt player moving around with the data i entered in cc17, but there is no difference in the actual sound. is there something i have to turn on in kontakt to make that data actually affect the sound, because it is obviously reading the data coming from Logic?
    Try to do the following in exactly this order:

    1) Load Tpt Solo 1 into the Kontakt player.
    2) Put a loooooooong note in the first measure.
    3) Add an aftertouch value of ~100 at the start of the note.
    4) Playback in Logic

    You should hear vibrato at a very slow speed for the full duration of your note.

    Now do the following:

    1) Add a curve of CC17 from 0 to 127 and back down to 0 for the duration of your note.
    2) Playback in Logic

    Now you should hear vibrato again for the full note, but the vibrato rate will get faster and then slower as the note progresses.

    So what we see now is that Aftertouch activates vibrato intensity and CC17 activates vibrato speed. Without any intensity (aftertouch) there's no vibrato.

    EDIT: And you've got it all figured out already

  8. #8

    Re: Hidden Vibrato not doing anything???

    For a second there, Keith, I thought you'd busted me - doubted myself, so I just checked in the GPO PDF manual, --yeah, After Touch and cc17 - Notice there's a sticky post on one of the Forums listing the instruments which respond to those controls, because not all of them do.

    Randy B.
    (rbowser)

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