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Topic: There is a hole in the bucket, dear Liza

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  1. #1

    There is a hole in the bucket, dear Liza

    ... dear Liza, fix it dear, Henry. A great song and humorous. But that is not the question. Just to draw your attention to the following:

    Today I happened to have two CD's of Mahler's 4th symph. One recorded with audience and one without, in a so called studio environment. I noticed a difference. There is a hole in the middle(pan) in the life recording, while the other one doesnt have one. Noticeable in the 3rd part, that great adagio. Why is that?

    Do they fill up that "gap" in a studio? Or are there other considerations?

    Please, enlight me.

    Raymond

  2. #2

    Re: There is a hole in the bucket, dear Liza

    Just a guess, but I think they use a lot more microphones for a studio recording, so they can place them more carefully.
    --gary shannon
    Spooks! - The Movie

  3. #3

    Re: There is a hole in the bucket, dear Liza

    Quote Originally Posted by fiziwig
    Just a guess, but I think they use a lot more microphones for a studio recording, so they can place them more carefully.
    Yeah, that would be my guess as well.
    Spot mic'ing is common in studio recording. Put one on the brass, one on the woodwinds, another for the violins (carefully adjusting the polar patterns and mic positionments on the stage to keep the violas as inaudible as possible), etc. etc. Then slight adjustments can be made later to beefen it up where needed. (And doing so while maintaining a homogeneous sound could be very tricky)

    It is also up to the skill of the recording engineer and the depth of stereo field he created.

  4. #4

    Re: There is a hole in the bucket, dear Liza

    How are the basses (and timpani) positioned on the live recording? Are they far to the left or right? The lack of enough center-channel bass may leave the impression of a "hole" in the stereo field.

    Live recordings often have only a single stereo pair, and if these mics are cardioid or hyper-cardioid and panned outward at all, a center "hole" may be created.

    It is also possible that the mics were out of phase (or the mic cables were out of phase) or somehwere else in the chain the stereo channels became out of phase. This could create the illusion of a "hole", too. Is the live recording a professional release or instead perhaps something done locally?

    Regards,
    Darwin

  5. #5

    Re: There is a hole in the bucket, dear Liza

    Quote Originally Posted by DarwinKopp
    How are the basses (and timpani) positioned on the live recording? Are they far to the left or right? The lack of enough center-channel bass may leave the impression of a "hole" in the stereo field.

    Live recordings often have only a single stereo pair, and if these mics are cardioid or hyper-cardioid and panned outward at all, a center "hole" may be created.

    It is also possible that the mics were out of phase (or the mic cables were out of phase) or somehwere else in the chain the stereo channels became out of phase. This could create the illusion of a "hole", too. Is the live recording a professional release or instead perhaps something done locally?

    Regards,
    Darwin
    Fizwig, Reegs thank you. Darwin, it is a professional release of the Dutch Philharmonic Orchestra. I have to investigate this further. Some of our members were talking about "listen to professional recorded CD's " to compare it with your own renderings. Doing this, I discovered the anomaly, I just described. So this may be tricky and one always must fall back upon his own judgement. If any other facts come to surface I'll keep you posted.

    Raymond

  6. #6

    Re: There is a hole in the bucket, dear Liza

    Raymond,

    This is difficult to intelligently discuss without hearing what you're hearing. You might post maybe 30 seconds of the live recording (for educational puroposes only) so we could hear exactly what you are concerned about.

    Is the recording panned so wide that there is nothing in the middle? The lead winds - oboe, flute, clarinet, and bassoon should all appear very near the center of the stereo field. The horns are often centered behind the winds. The violas should also sound pretty close to center no matter how the strings are set up.

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