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Topic: Using Reaper

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  1. #1
    Senior Member June-Bug-Dan's Avatar
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    Using Reaper

    Hi all,
    Sorry to be repeating the same comments but i need help!
    I'm using Sibelius 4 and C&MB which are linked using 'maple Midi'.
    I can hear C&MB and it is all working nicely but as mentioned in previous posts i havent worked out how to record!

    I have downloaded 'Reaper' from a previous post link and now i need to know in detail please how to set it up to record C&MB output.

    If anyone can help me here i would be very greatful, and i would like to say thanks to the members that helped me in the previous post.

    Dan.
    Trumpet, cornet, flugel player. Composer and student.

  2. #2

    Re: Using Reaper

    Hi Dan,

    Saw you hadn't gotten any replies to this, so I thought I'd take a shot with how I do it. I'm a Finale user, but this should be generic enough to work for your setup.

    I save my music from Finale as a MIDI file (Finale saves the file with all of the KP2 MIDI CC values that GPO/JABB/COMB use -- not sure if Sibelius does that or not. If not, you may need to add them with the REAPER MIDI editor.).

    I use REAPER as my MIDI sequencer. I open the MIDI file in REAPER. Usually I have multiple MIDI tracks, so I create a parent folder/track for all of the MIDI tracks. By default, I have the "Master/Parent" send turned on for all tracks, so REAPER automatically sends the MIDI data from each of the tracks in the folder to the parent folder/track, so I insert the KP2 VSTi as an effect in the partent folder/track.

    (You don't have to create a parent folder. You could insert a KP2 instance in each individual MIDI track's FX chain, but then you end up with lots of KP2 instances, each of which is processing only one track. Since KP2 can handle up to 16 tracks, it's more efficient to group the tracks and send up to 16 of them to one KP2 instance.)

    If you have a lot of instruments/tracks, you may want/need to create multiple parent folders -- perhaps one for all the wind instruments, one for all the brass, one for all the percussion, etc. Apply the above principles to each of those parent folders (i.e., add an instance of KP2 VSTi in the FX loop for each parent track).

    Since the "Master/Parent" send is turned on for the parent folder/track, the output of the KP2 VSTi is sent to the main outputs, so I can hear the music when I play the file.

    Once you've got that working, recording is a snap. Simply render the tracks you want to record (you can render the entire piece at once, or render individual sections if you prefer). My personal preference is to stem-render each parent folder, so that I end up with an audio file for each instance of KP2 (e.g., the winds, the brass, the percussion, etc.).

    I am fairly new to REAPER (less than 2 months), and it took me a couple of weeks of futzing around with it to understand how to really take advantage of playing/rendering GPO with KP2 in REAPER. But now that I understand it, it is SO much easier than anything I used to do in Finale (but Finale is still great for composing).

    If you haven't really read throught the REAPER manual in detail, I strongly recommend it. Especially the sections on FX, because in this case you are using the KP2 VTSi player as an effect that takes MIDI inout and produces audio output.

    Note that you have lots of options for applying other FX (everb, etc). You can do it with the FX built into KP2 (which gets captured when you render the music), or you can do it with a separate FX (i.e., ReaVerb) either as part of the rending or apply it to the audio file that you have rendered. But that's a whole different topic.

    I hope this was detailed enough to get you going. If not, let me know, and I'll try to provide more information. What you are trying to do is very easy to do once you know your way around REAPER. I have found that it opened up many more mixing/arranging possibilities than I ever thought were possible because of the ease of being able to shuttle MIDI/audio signals from track to track and in/out of FX chains.
    Best Regards,
    Ernie

  3. #3

    Re: Using Reaper

    Quote Originally Posted by June-Bug-Dan
    I have downloaded 'Reaper' from a previous post link and now i need to know in detail please how to set it up to record C&MB output.
    - Open a Reaper project
    - Create a new track (call it C&MB track if you like).
    - Load a VSTi like C&MB into that track as an effect.
    - Load a number of instruments into that VST, e.g. 8 instruments

    - Create 8 more tracks
    - Arm them for midi record, each receives one MapleMidi channel
    - Send the midi of each to the C&MB track, each to another midi channel

    That's about it.
    All your strings belong to me!
    www.strings-on-demand.com

  4. #4

    Re: Using Reaper

    I took a look at this thread to see if I too could learn something about Reaper - and now I have a question.

    Lunker, you described how you use KP2 in Reaper, and the process sounds much the same as it is in any DAW - not too difficult.

    Hannes, in your simplified list of steps, you have MapleMidi in the loop. Was that an error? Your outline seemed basically the same as Lunker, but he's having success without adding Maple to the process---?

    Randy B.
    (rbowser)

  5. #5

    Re: Using Reaper

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser-

    Hannes, in your simplified list of steps, you have MapleMidi in the loop. Was that an error? Your outline seemed basically the same as Lunker, but he's having success without adding Maple to the process---?

    Randy B.
    (rbowser)
    Just guessing, but note that Hannes use MapleMidi in the receive. You can use any midi device as input, but you can direct the midi data directly to the C&MB. Probably Hannes is using MidiOx to connect his midi keyboard to maple to get more control about what is happening, before send the signal to reaper.
    Marcelo Colina

  6. #6

    Re: Using Reaper

    Howdy Randy,

    Sorry I didn't reply earlier -- I just returned from an internet-free vacation with the family in Hawai'i. A great trip, but I missed the entire Garritan Go-Round sale! So so so so sad ... especially since I planned to order JABB when I returned, and just found out I missed a fantastic deal on it. Oh well ...

    The difference between Hannes' post and mine (besides that fact that he is brief and I am long-winded) is that he addressed Dan's actual question of sending MIDI into Reaper. Dan said that he is already using Sibelius->MapleMIDI->CoMB, so Hannes' suggestion of using Silelius->MapleMIDI->Reaper->CoMB(VST) matches Dan's request better than my suggestion does.

    However, I prefer to save the data from my Finale score as a MIDI file and load the file into Reaper, rather than sending the MIDI data into Reaper directly from Finale. I get three benefits from doing it this way:
    1) I can edit the data using the Reaper MIDI editor, which I find easier to use than the Finale MIDI editor.
    2) I get the same timing/tempo for each performance (Finale HumanPlayback introduces slight variations for each performance, which can sound bad if you are trying to sync to other tracks in Reaper).
    3) I have more CPU available for Reaper, because Finale doesn't need to be running to play the file.
    I assumed that Dan might benefit by doing it my way, so I didn't think of using the method Hannes suggested. But if Dan is already successfully playing the music from Sibelius into CoMB through MapleMIDI, and doesn't have the other issues I brought up, then he may prefer Hannes' solution over mine.
    Best Regards,
    Ernie

  7. #7

    Re: Using Reaper

    Hi all,

    you are very attentive, thank you. I included Maple only because Jean mentioned it in his post. If Sibelius can send midi directly to reaper, the better.

    I personally use MidiOverLan to send midi data to Reaper, from Keyboard, sequencer or notation program (would be Overture in my case).

    BTW the makers of MidiOverLan (MusicLab) provide a nice free little program called Midi Connection Center that merges midi streams. This has not been asked here for but it is handy if you want to send data from different sources like keyboard, sequencer or notation program to a reaper instance that has been set up as a player.

    http://www.musiclab.com/downloads/free/
    All your strings belong to me!
    www.strings-on-demand.com

  8. #8
    Senior Member June-Bug-Dan's Avatar
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    Re: Using Reaper

    Quote Originally Posted by Hannes_F
    - Open a Reaper project
    - Create a new track (call it C&MB track if you like).
    - Load a VSTi like C&MB into that track as an effect.
    - Load a number of instruments into that VST, e.g. 8 instruments

    - Create 8 more tracks
    - Arm them for midi record, each receives one MapleMidi channel
    - Send the midi of each to the C&MB track, each to another midi channel

    That's about it.
    Thanks Hannes,

    But when i load an effect i look under VSTi but only Garritans personal orchestra is listed no C&MB
    I looked through all of the effects and couldnt see it anywhere.

    Regards,
    Dan.

    P.S Sorry i took so long to reply i have been buisy
    lately.
    Trumpet, cornet, flugel player. Composer and student.

  9. #9

    Re: Using Reaper

    Hi, Dan

    "... i look under VSTi but only Garritans personal orchestra is listed no C&MB..."

    But it's Kontact Player 2 that you need to load in order to then load CMB - you can't go straight to CMB.

    Randy B.

  10. #10
    Senior Member June-Bug-Dan's Avatar
    Join Date
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    Re: Using Reaper

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser-
    Hi, Dan

    "... i look under VSTi but only Garritans personal orchestra is listed no C&MB..."

    But it's Kontact Player 2 that you need to load in order to then load CMB - you can't go straight to CMB.

    Randy B.
    Sorry i should have been more presice,
    There is no Kontakt player 2 listed either.

    Dan.
    Trumpet, cornet, flugel player. Composer and student.

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