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Topic: Free LinuxSampler 0.5.1 for Windows released (ASIO)

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  1. #1

    Free LinuxSampler 0.5.1 for Windows released (ASIO)

    Hi all,
    the LinuxSampler development team is happy to announce the first official release of LinuxSampler for Windows.
    Due to its young nature expect possible issues.

    get the windows installer from:
    http://www.linuxsampler.org/

    windows quickstart howto:
    http://www.linuxsampler.org/windows.html

    screenshot:
    http://www.linuxsampler.org/screensh...2_premiere.png

  2. #2
    Senior Member Steve_Karl's Avatar
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    Re: Free LinuxSampler 0.5.1 for Windows released (ASIO)

    Interesting.

    There's a green check mark for OSX but it's not at all obvious where to download it.

    Can you show me where the download link is for OSX?

    Thanks.

  3. #3

    Re: Free LinuxSampler 0.5.1 for Windows released (ASIO)

    The land feature sounds really cool. Anyone know what it means exactly.

  4. #4

    Re: Free LinuxSampler 0.5.1 for Windows released (ASIO)

    Strange and stranger still.

    Does this have all of the limitations and strangeness ("dimensions" instead of layers, simplfied envelopes, etc) of Giga? In other words: Is this just an emulation of Giga, or does it try to create a new platform or recreate the Ensoniq\Kurzweil\Roland hardware that Giga partly emulated? Or push still further into programming or modeling?

    Please tell us that the goal is not just to emulate Giga. Nemesys gave us direct-from-disk sample playing. That's all. VSampler came out two years earlier and provided a much better interface and much, much more control over the samples and filters. Sonic Cell and other sample players were there, too. Since then, Short Circuit and other sample players have given us still more control. Even Kontakt, despite the laughable interface, offers more control than Giga.

    In other words, and I hate to say it, but why on earth, given VSampler, Kontakt, DirectWave, Short Circuit, SampleTank,Motu MachFive, and the many others, did you choose Giga as the program to copy? Seriously--did you think it was state of the art?

  5. #5

    Re: Free LinuxSampler 0.5.1 for Windows released (ASIO)

    > Does this have all of the limitations and strangeness ("dimensions" instead
    > of layers, simplfied envelopes, etc) of Giga? In other words: Is this just
    > an emulation of Giga, or does it try to create a new platform or recreate
    > the Ensoniq\Kurzweil\Roland hardware that Giga partly emulated? Or push
    > still further into programming or modeling?

    In contrast to the existing samplers on the market we're going completely
    different ways. LinuxSampler uses a very modular design. You can already
    use a variety of MIDI and audio drivers on the different architectures,
    all even simultaniously and with an arbitrary amount of instances, only
    dependent to the underlying system / hardware. This modular approach applies
    to many components of the sampler: the sampler is already capable to handle
    more than just one sampler engine simultaniously, even though the sampler
    currently only has one finished engine yet. The idea was to implement
    completely independent, dedicated engines for a particular task or format,
    instead of trying to stuff all the different synthesis approaches into one
    single engine, which would suffer under compromises and immense concentrated
    complexity. So if one would come up with i.e an innovative new synthesis
    approach, he could simply add a new engine implementation to LinuxSampler,
    reuse particular, already existing synthesis components, instead of having
    to hack his new approaches into one single monolithic engine, thus being
    able to build a new sampling / synthesis concept in a minimum of time and
    without fearing to hurt other already existing components with his
    modifications. The most apparent difference is that we decoupled the actual
    sampler (the backend) from the user interface (frontend), i.e. allowing to
    run the resource intensive sampler on remote machine(s) and the frontend on
    one central workstation. Notice that we already provide two frontends. One uses a
    modern skin based approach and the other one uses classical, native UI
    widgets from the underlying OS.

    > Please tell us that the goal is not just to emulate Giga.

    I hope I told you above that it's not. We just decided to start with the
    Gigasampler format for our first sampler engine implementation, because we
    thought its important to support a popular, already existing format. Similar
    to other open source projects like Open Office. But we are currently
    planning a completely new sampler engine (from scratch), based on completely
    new approaches, which existing samplers per se cannot deliver.

    > Nemesys gave us direct-from-disk sample playing. That's all. VSampler came
    > out two years earlier and provided a much better interface and much, much
    > more control over the samples and filters. Sonic Cell and other sample
    > players were there, too. Since then, Short Circuit and other sample
    > players have given us still more control. Even Kontakt, despite the
    > laughable interface, offers more control than Giga.

    > In other words, and I hate to say it, but why on earth, given VSampler,
    > Kontakt, DirectWave, Short Circuit, SampleTank,Motu MachFive, and the
    > many others, did you choose Giga as the program to copy? Seriously--did
    > you think it was state of the art?

    No, support of the gig format was just one step. The gig format was just
    chosen due to popularity. Beside the mentioned new sample engine
    implementation(s), have a look at all the features we have planned
    on our website.


    Steve_Karl:
    although LinuxSampler works on OS X, we don't provide an OS X binary yet, for the simple reason that the developer that did the OS X modification has not done it yet and others do not have a Mac. I hope this changes too.

    We will soon support not only VST on Windows but AU plugins on OS X too (with networking multi machine support) in order to make LinuxSampler userfriendly on all architecture.

    geronimo001:
    what do you mean with land feature ? (did you mean LAN? elaborate please)

    regards,
    Benno

  6. #6

    Re: Free LinuxSampler 0.5.1 for Windows released (ASIO)

    Prepare to be assimilated.


  7. #7

    Re: Free LinuxSampler 0.5.1 for Windows released (ASIO)

    Thanks benno, you've already answered my question...

    Please import Kontakt 2 next!

  8. #8

    Re: Free LinuxSampler 0.5.1 for Windows released (ASIO)

    Hi,
    Since LinuxSampler currently works only standalone (ASIO out) and it would be handy for users to route the sampler's audio back into a sequencer, I'd like to add some infos to the documentation in order to explain what's possible to do in this regard and how to set it up.
    I have currently only a stereo card (I'm on my laptop) and I'd like to hear how users that own ASIO multi-client cards usually do it.

    For example I've read ESI cards do have a DirectWIRE control panel which allows arbitrary routing of channels.

    see this PDF, page 31
    http://85.25.144.200/download/ESI/MA...44-English.pdf

    If I understand correctly you can route channels from application A into the inputs of application B but are hardware inputs (assume the ESI card) simply overwritten ?
    For example assume the card has 4 analog ins and you send the sampler (app A) to out 3,4 then use DirectWIRE to route out 3,4 to in 1,2. The sequencer (app B) reads from in 1.2. Does this mean that instead of the analog signals on 1,2 you get the output of app A into app B ?
    At this point app B (the sequencer) sends it's audio out to out 1,2 since I assume ports 3,4 are occupied for routing ?
    What happens if app B tries to send audio to ports 3,4 ?

    LinuxSampler does have FX sends which you can control with a MIDI controller (for reverb,chorus etc) and send the output to an arbitrary audio output channel but for this in absence of VST one needs to have a way to route all the FX send busses back into the sequencer.

    I've read on the NS forums that people sometimes run Kontakt standalone (for various reasons like performance, memory, num midi ports etc) and then route its outs via ASIO into the sequencer.

    How do people usually set up both applications to achieve best results ?

    With 2 machines you can of course pipe midi from the sequencer box into the sampler box and audio back from the sampler box into the sequencer box (ie using real,virtual midi cables and 2 soundcards).
    but since not everyone uses 2 machines the single machine standalone sampler + sequencer scenario is useful too.

    thanks in advance for your infos.
    Benno

  9. #9

    Re: Free LinuxSampler 0.5.1 for Windows released (ASIO)

    sbenno:


    I'm not sure how to respond. My impression is that English is not your native language, so it took me some time to understand your response. But the language problem is not my worry. You don't address anything that I said.

    I do understand that creating direct-from-disk sample playing was no minor accomplishment, since it suddenly let people forget the need to loop samples. But the Nemesys focus on long samples, neglecting programming, filters, and the interface, while also claiming to introduce astonishing new things ("dimensions," when layers of sounds had been around for a decade), still make me hesitant to rejoice that someone has copied Giga in 2007.

    Sorry to be so negative. I understand that your release comes after many years of work. But your announcement itself, as well as the name of your program, says that your release is an emulation of Giga.

    And sorry to seem abrasive--is the real accomplishment creating a sample player in Linux, and the Giga thing is secondary? But Giga is a big name, so to draw attention to the program, the interface and the Giga name were copied? If so, I understand the importance of this program better. And yet, and yet, why not create a Linux sample player that didn't reference and name itself after Giga, and that revealed a more extensive knowledge of sampling and synthesis and modelling and interface design? (But thanks for not stealing the Kontak interface.)


  10. #10

    Re: Free LinuxSampler 0.5.1 for Windows released (ASIO)

    Hi,
    we updated the Windows HOWTO since a some users
    were unable to install the sampler due to some garbage left in the registry by other apps using the same GUI DLLs (gtk).
    And we added some notes how to install LinuxSampler on machines not connected to the internet (as the installer
    tries to download and install missing components this would fail on a box without internet connection)

    http://www.linuxsampler.org/windows.html


    Response for Jake:

    about copying the name:
    the name linuxsampler meant to denote a sampler that runs on linux. Where do you see the word giga within the 'linuxsampler' word ?
    The fact that the linuxsampler code was ported to and runs on both OSX and Windows does not oblige the author to change its name.

    about copying the software:
    there are several samplers that can load an play samples in GIG format. So according to your definition is Kontakt a copy of Gigasampler ?

    about "copied Giga in 2007":

    LinuxSampler exists since almost a decade , certainly not that advanced like now but keep in mind as our contributors work on in in their spare time you cannot expect to advance as fast as commercial applications. yet, lately LS development speed has picked up a lot.

    We are not to blame if someone discovers LinuxSampler in 2007 only becaue it was ported to Windows and because some people thing this is and will be the only viable audio platform.

    If you study the LinuxSampler concept more in-depth the GIG playing routines is just like a plugin which the sampler sees as a black box to send midi data to and fetch audio data from.

    The new modular engine in LS is in the works and this is where our efforts are directed to.

    And about the obsolence of samples in GIG format, my stance is the following:
    while Kontakt's NKI is certainly more flexible, most users do not need all its features and the GIG format is still viable for many uses, especially orchestral samples as you don't need sample mangling functions which simply kill orchestral libraries' realism.

    The proof that not many features are needed with orchestral libs is that sample library developers are now writing their own sampler engines which offer a fraction of the features of Kontakt and even Gigastudio, yet its users seem to be ok with it.

    The sampling market is IMHO taking a negative direction as each vendor tries to cook up their own engine which is often bug-ridden and suboptimally designed.
    And if Native Instruments, a company with over 100 employees after all these years did not manage to produce a perfectly stable sampler with all the features that users demand, then imagine what a sample library vendor with only a couple of employees can do.

    I can understand them not wanting being dependent from Native Instruments as some time ago NI had too much stronghold in that field and probably charged an arm and a leg for letting sample library vendors using their Kompakt/Kontakt player but OTOH audio programming is a difficult task and requires good design, excellent brains, lots of time, testing and patience.

    And honestly said, I know the audio programming world very well, and it's a small town. Finding good audio programmers is a hard task because they need to know lots of things (DSP,musical theory,audio,midi low level concepts, real time programming etc etc)
    and from a programmer's point of view it's not such an interesting market because there is not much money to be made. A programmer with all the above knowledge can easily find a well paid job so even though there are people with the needed knowledge you have hard time to convince them working for you.
    There are other situations where such programmers start working at an audio company then once the initial enthusiasm is lost and company directors are hammering them with new feature requests, bugfixes for bugs impossible to solve often caused by bad software design etc, they give up and look for an easier and better paid job.
    This leaves the company with a heap of programming code nobody understands and to a newly hired programmer it could take months to familiarize with the code, let alone getting some useful work done.

    The fact is that open source has the advantage of basically the whole world being able to check out and peer review the code pointing out deficiencies, bugs and even contributing improvements.
    This is an advantage commercial audio software developers cannot enjoy.
    I can understand them being worried about piracy (so they cannot open source the code) but as said thousand of times proprietary engines and sample formats is going to cause quite some troubles for honest users.

    Companies come and go, even bigger companies are not immune from going bankrupt.
    A company that strives today could not exist anymore after a couple of years, leaving its users with cold feet.
    I don't need/use expesive sample libraries but imagine
    you spent 3000-5000 US$ is sample libraries which come with their own sample player and usb dongle.
    If the company goes broke and after a few years Microsoft / Apple releases a new version of their operating systems which is incompatible with the sample library's bundled sampleplayer you are using, then you are screwed and all what remains in your hands is a bunch of useless data discs.

    Not to mention the fact that users often use sample libraries from several vendors at the same time. This is very inefficient as those proprietary sample players fight each other for the CPU, RAM and disk resource resulting in in a suboptimal performance.

    Of course you cannot always expect opensource applications being at par with the top dog in a certain category of programs, but we are now observing a trend where the gap between open source applications and commercial ones is narrowing by the day.

    our goal is hopefully to give some positive contribution to the sampling field, making it more open, powerful and enjoyable.

    regards,
    Benno

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