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Topic: Vibrato with JBB and CMB

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  1. #1
    Senior Member 4209fr's Avatar
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    Vibrato with JBB and CMB

    I haven't messed with vibrato control before because the default with GPO is OK. But the default with the Bands programs is 'vibrato off'. The Manual mentions Aftertouch as well as cc17. If I move the control knob (cc17), nothing happens, so I presume that Aftertouch = 0. But I can't find a way to access Aftertouch with my sequencer (Sonar 5 PE). In the Piano Roll view, it only shows Velocity (plus you can designate any cc, and, I must use cc1). The Manual mentioned something about cc131, but when I tried to enter that, it changes it to cc255.
    So, I am hoping that someone with Sonar and JBB and/or CMB that has configured the vibrato can help me find out how to access the Aftertouch so I can give it a value other than zero (which I presume to be the problem. If there are other was to activate Vibrato, I would be interested in this, also).
    Thanx for the help.
    Frank

  2. #2
    Senior Member 4209fr's Avatar
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    Re: Vibrato with JBB and CMB

    OK. I found an obscure mention of Aftertouch related to the Events window. So I inserted a new event and renamed it (from "Control") a Channel Aftertouch event and gave it a value. The "flag" shows up in the Piano Roll and also in the Controllers drop-down box, now. Vibrato works just fine, now.
    Frank

  3. #3

    Re: Vibrato with JBB and CMB

    I'm late, Frank - But congrats on figuring out your own problem.

    I've seen this be confusing for quite a few people. "Aftertouch" is a generic term which is called several different things, like Channel Pressure, and Channel Aftertouch, as you discovered is the case in Sonar.

    Just be sure to draw in sweeping amounts, not single events. On a held note, for instance, have a fairly steep hill going up and then down again as the note finishes.

    Similarly with the vibrato speed control, #17, it's very effective to vary that especially on long notes, so you don't have one unrealistically constant vibrato rate.

    Randy B.
    (rbowser)

  4. #4

    Re: Vibrato with JBB and CMB

    I'm sorry, I don't understand how to give Channel Aftertouch a value of other than "zero." I have the same problem as 4209fr, except that I'm running JABB on Sonar XL 6 Home Studio. Can anyone please give me instructions on how to get the vibrato to work properly? Also, the JABB manual talks generally about the Aftertouch having a "higher number value" than zero, but it does not describe the range. Is the range of values (from zero to excessive vibrato) from zero to 10? Zero to 500?

    Thanks in advance for your response, and to all the contributors of information on this site!

  5. #5

    Re: Vibrato with JBB and CMB

    Quote Originally Posted by jfl16
    I'm sorry, I don't understand how to give Channel Aftertouch a value of other than "zero." I have the same problem as 4209fr, except that I'm running JABB on Sonar XL 6 Home Studio. Can anyone please give me instructions on how to get the vibrato to work properly? Also, the JABB manual talks generally about the Aftertouch having a "higher number value" than zero, but it does not describe the range. Is the range of values (from zero to excessive vibrato) from zero to 10? Zero to 500?

    Thanks in advance for your response, and to all the contributors of information on this site!
    Hi...you should be able to draw ChanAft data in the controller pane of the piano roll. At least Sonar 4 PE allows it. ChanAft runs 0 to 127.
    Jim Williams
    Professor of Capitalism
    N9EJR
    Indianapolis Brass Choir
    All Your Bass Sus&Short Are Belong to Us.

  6. #6

    Re: Vibrato with JBB and CMB

    Hi, jfl16

    I use Home Studio 6 XL also. I'm sorry my last contribution to this thread wasn't clear enough - Let me try again.

    The heart of MIDI work is in the Piano Roll View. The "controller pane" at the bottom is where you edit all possible kinds of MIDI data. This is where you tweak your cc1 data and all other controllers you've recorded in a project.

    Upper left corner of the menu on the left, select Channel Aftertouch. That's the Aftertouch you need to access. You need to ask to see Aftertouch, and to edit it. This menu has more choices than previous versions, but a little bit of trial and error and you'll see how it works.

    Use the pencil tool - The default amount is Zero, naturall. You draw in a ramp of data, you'll see it as hills--Exactly the same as when you edit any other controller. Just have it under the notes you want to have effected, and you're set.

    "...the JABB manual talks generally about the Aftertouch having a "higher number value" than zero, but it does not describe the range..."

    All MIDI controllers have a range of zero to 127. You'll find that much above the mid-way point will be too heavy, except for unusual situations. Zero is bottom of the window, the very top is 127.

    Go experiment--That's all there is to it!

    Randy B.

  7. #7
    Senior Member 4209fr's Avatar
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    Re: Vibrato with JBB and CMB

    jfl -
    Randy tells it like it is. I am gaining more experience with using vibrato within Sonar 5PE. I'm not sure if it is exactly like Home Studio, but I rarely (maybe once in 100 times) get the controller list associated with the Piano Roll view that Randy mentions. What I have to do to establish Channel Aftertouch is to go to the Event List, select the track you want. At the beginning of the list you should have some sort of a controller (like cc1, but you can use a Note event, too). Select the (controller) event, do an Insert (the asterisk near the right of the top buttons). This will duplicate the existing event. Change the Time a little (10 or 20 ticks) then double click on the "Control" (or Note). You will get a dialog box to select (radio buttons) Channel Aftertouch. The existing "Control" will change to Channel Aftertouch. Go to the Data column (there should be a "1" there, maybe not) and double click on the "1". It will change so that you can enter a new number (between 0 and 127). I have had the best luck with numbers between 40 and 80). This is the Depth of the vibrato. The vibrato speed can also be entered in the same way as "cc17" (or I can add it as a new controller in the Piano Roll pane). I haven't done this (cc17) because I just use the vibrato speed knob on the Kontakt 2 Player for the instrument of concern. For what I have done thus far (with one exception), I find a Depth and Speed that I like for that instrument in that situation and stay with it. Once you enter the Channel Aftertouch in the Event List, it will then always appear in the Controller List for that instrument in the Piano Roll view.

    Hope this adds some additional information in case you still have problems getting it to appear, like I initially had.

    Frank
    Frank Newman - Houston, Texas, USA, Earth, Milky Way (for our 'extended' viewership)
    Vista Ult SP2, i7 chipset, 12Gb, 500Gb (int) + 1 & 1.5Tb ext., E-MU 1820, Sonar 8.5PE, VSampler, CME UF5, AcousModules (for 3D playback), GPO/JBB/CMB

  8. #8

    Re: Vibrato with JBB and CMB

    --!---Oh my, Frank - I'll give you an A+ for finding a creative work-around, but this extremely convoluted process you described for editing Aftertouch in the Piano Roll View isn't necessary.

    Here's all there is to it:

    In the upper left corner, there are two boxes for choosing controllers to work on. Choose the bottom, gray one. When you click it, the pop-up will show you what kind of data is already in the track and being displayed. But you have the choice to add "New Value Type." Click that.

    In the new pop-up, on the left, click "Type" - From the list choose ChanAft. Now you're set so that when you use the pencil tool, it will be drawing Aftertouch.

    --See? MUCh easier than you thought.

    Randy B.

  9. #9
    Senior Member 4209fr's Avatar
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    Re: Vibrato with JBB and CMB

    Oh, my, Randy -
    Talk about "selective vision". I've looked at that box at least a dozen times (not to look for Channel Aftertouch), but I never remember seeing the "Channel Aftertouch - or ChanAft? - there. So now I can use the EASY way to select it! (I wonder why they don't include Key Aftertouch in that list since it is the only other non-cc (of the 3 non-cc's) that could be included. Maybe you can just write "KeyAft" in the box, OR, go through the "convoluted" process that I described).

    The "once in 100" list that I described (which I thought was the one you were talking about) is one that I infrequently get when I try the Value drop-down box of the same selection dialog where you can get the ChanAft and RPN, etc. But that will only be valid if "Control" is in the Type location.

    Oh, well. Learn and live.

    Thanx for the bringing my ignorance out of the darkness.

    Frank
    Frank Newman - Houston, Texas, USA, Earth, Milky Way (for our 'extended' viewership)
    Vista Ult SP2, i7 chipset, 12Gb, 500Gb (int) + 1 & 1.5Tb ext., E-MU 1820, Sonar 8.5PE, VSampler, CME UF5, AcousModules (for 3D playback), GPO/JBB/CMB

  10. #10

    Re: Vibrato with JBB and CMB

    Good morning, Frank

    GOod deal! I'm glad my reply helped you out.

    "...I wonder why they don't include Key Aftertouch in that list since it is the only other non-cc (of the 3 non-cc's) that could be included..."

    Because Key Aftertouch isn't one of the options. Like many programs, Home Studio uses Channel Aftertouch only. That means the AT data will be applied to anything on that particular MIDI channel at that given moment. It's really no big limitation. With Key AT you could have vibrato on one note inside a chord - but that's not really an absolutely necessary capability.

    By the way, Pitch Bend is in its own category too - labelled "Wheel" in that selection box.

    You mentioned earlier that you understand vibrato speed is controlled by cc17. I suggest you experiment with varying it during a piece - Easy to do there in the Piano Roll View, and can add good touches of realism, especially in long notes, for instance having the vibrato slow down a bit towards the end of the note.

    Randy B.

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