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Topic: Sibelius HELP would be appreciated...

  1. #1

    Sibelius HELP would be appreciated...

    Holy Sibelius midi and signal routing, Batman!

    If one JUST wants to play/enter with GS instruments in Sibelius with a local off MIDI keyboard whats the best configuration under DEVICES within Sibelius?

    (Simple set-up: I\'m working with a Yamaha P80 keyboard attached via joystick adapter to my Terratec EWX2496 in a Win98se PC running Sibelius configured as my \"sequencer\" inside of GS96. And GS96 is working/playing fine by itself and with other true sequencers.)

    In Sibelius, I\'ve got Playback Devices selected as follows -

    Microsoft Wav Table NO
    EWX2496 NO
    Nemesys Port 1 YES
    Nemesys Port 2 YES

    The only Input Device, EWX2496, is highlighted.

    No check for Midi Thru

    Playback in Background is set to \"When in Foreground\"


    And then there\'s the mysterious \"Play using this device\" selection to make again later as you actually choose an Instrument. AND then there\'s also the Mixer to set correctly for playback and channel.


    Could one of the Sibelius gurus give me a quick run down on the standard way to set these things for a simple Midi keyboard to GSIF soundcard in a PC to GS/Sibelius ?

    THANK YOU! LifeForce

  2. #2

    Re: Sibelius HELP would be appreciated...

    Hello again, LifeForce!

    If one JUST wants to play/enter with GS instruments in Sibelius with a local off MIDI keyboard whats the best configuration under DEVICES within Sibelius?
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">You\'ve got it almost all right. All you are missing is that you need to check the \"MIDI Thru\" box. Picture the path a MIDI command goes through when you press a key:

    a) you P80 sends out a \"note on\" message on its set channel (probably 1). Because you have configured it to be silent (local control OFF) no sound is generated by it.

    b) your soundcard\'s MIDI driver receives the command and routes it to the currently active client, in this case let\'s assume that Sibelius is the \"foreground\" application, so Sibelius accepts the message because you have set it to listen to the card\'s MIDI input in the devices dialog.

    c) Sibelius checks if MIDI thru is selected in the Devices dialog. If not, it assumes that the device that originated the command also sounded the note, so Sibelius does NOT \"forward\" the message to its current device (but it will still process the input, if necessary). Otherwise, Sib echoes the command to the currently selected output device.

    But how does Sibelius decide what the currently selected device is? Well, if you have a staff selected than its device/channel pair is used, and the message is routed to it, but because there was a selection Sibelius also processes the command as input and starts to enter notes into the staff.

    This is probably not what you want, so.. there is a way to tell Sibelius what the \"current device\" should be but that you are not entering music, and that\'s simply to hit \"escape\" after selecting a staff. This will de-select the staff for input, but its associated device will remain active until you make a different selection. Until then, incoming MIDI commands will be routed to the same device/channel outs without processing music input.

    Quick example: let\'s say you create an empty score with a few staves, and in the mixer you set the first staff to \"Nemesys 1:channel 1,\" the next staff to \"Nemesys 1:channel 2\" and so forth. Now, select top staff (any part of it), hit escape. Tab out to Giga, drag and drop an instrument into the port 1:channel 1 slot. Tab back to Sibelius and play your keyboard.. there you go, the corresponding instrument is playing!

    A little problem: more than likely you have Sibelius configured to send program change messages automatically when needed, and you definitely don\'t want to change this behavior, but what\'s going to happen is that Sibelius is going to send bank/program changes to Giga when you select staves, which is not what you want while you are browsing. You can try the following:

    a) in the Devices dialog set \"Playback in Background\" to \"Always.\" Now Sibelius will be the active application receiving MIDI input even when not in the foreground.

    b) as before, select a staff in Sib to establish the current device/channel context, hit \"escape\" to disable note input.

    c) tab out to Giga and load instruments into the proper channel slot. You don\'t need to go back to Sibelius, just play your keyboard and the instrument you have loaded in the Giga slot currently addressed by Sibelius will continue to sound. Repeat ad libitum..

    Oh, and don\'t worry about the \"Play using this device\" menu in the Instruments dialog. It is just a shortcut way of selecting a device for the instruments you are adding to the score. It is exactly the same as going to the mixer and making those assignments later on. If it confuses it just ignore it. Go to the mixer after adding the instrument and make the necessary decisions regarding device/channel/program/bank, etc.

    I hope that\'s enough. If not, give me a buzz and I\'ll guide you through the various options step by step. Take care.. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]


    Andrea G. Pessino (not female, just Italian)
    Blizzard Entertainment


  3. #3

    Re: Sibelius HELP would be appreciated...

    Andrea - THANKS! You\'re a life saver as usual.

    I was experimenting with Midi Thru yesterday and it appears that my mistake was trying to change to Midi Thru WHILE I already had a test score up and running. I was getting these \"Midi Device Not Found\" messages and then I was off into Bitmap Error messages. It must have been because I was trying changing to Midi Thru while a score was already present.

    So today I calmly checked Midi Thru again AFTER reading your message but BEFORE setting up any instruments or a score and VOILA, everything\'s working fine now!

    You\'ve given me a lot of additional information to learn from here. Many thanks, LifeForce

  4. #4

    Re: Sibelius HELP would be appreciated...

    Close...but no cigar!

    Per my email, should you be around and see this first, Andrea - this procedure almost worked for me (click and escape on a Sib stave and then go load the same instrument in Giga).

    But setting up a flute, piano and cello this way USING the channel numbers that SIBELIUS assigns to them in the mixer - I get the flute from the flute stave and then the flute again from the first piano stave, with the flute jumping into channel 2 in Giga even though I just put the piano there. Weird. And then silence from stave two of the piano. And then the cello in channel 3 works fine in the cello stave.

    The way the flute is using two staves its acting like a piano isnt it! Can\'t I work it the reverse way and TELL Sibelius that my piano is going to be Channel One and my flute channel two and so forth, even though this isnt the order they first appear in in the Sibelius mixer - I\'ll just change the channel assignments there?

    What other data from Giga should one enter in the Sibelius mixer? Like should I change Bank Low to O in the Sib Mixer and should I enter the Giga Instrument number as my Program number over in the Sib mixer? Thanks! -LifeForce

  5. #5

    Re: Sibelius HELP would be appreciated...

    Nope - Tried changing the channel numbers in the Sibelius mixer to suit the way they were actually loaded in GS (after the click esc on each stave). I actually then entered a few notes in each stave with the correct sound coming from each stave !! But then when I went to replay my test bars together I got a big old message on my Sib screen:

    \"ERROR 11 MMSYSTEM011 An invalid parameter was passed to a system function.\"

    And after closing this message the CELLO played back on both the piano staves and on the cello stave - and back in GS my piano was unloaded and the cello was in both the cello and the former piano channel! (All this has been just computer keyboard entry - no Midi keyboard issues here - its turned off.)

    Must be that I shouldnt be using these GM instrument names and theres something I need to learn about entering further details in the Sib mixer - like bank low and high and program numbers and all that?

  6. #6

    Re: Sibelius HELP would be appreciated...

    Getting somewhere again. Andrea - This is all being caused by the Piano, period! It\'s all the two stave nature of the piano in Sibelius and everything else that you suggested for setting things up is working fine - IF I dont use a piano. How does one set-up the danged piano? It all boils down to the way the pianos getting dangled up with other instruments and this is what gave me all this grief! Thanks, LifeForce

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