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Topic: KP2 2.2.3.003 - requires cold boot, now skins gone

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  1. #1

    KP2 2.2.3.003 - requires cold boot, skins disappeared

    I can't say that KP2 is the worse piece of software ever released, but it's getting right up there.

    My on-going problem from day one is that I can't get it to load unless I cold boot first! If I run just about anything else prior (including KP2 itself!), KP2 won't load, freezing on the splash screen. If it somehow gets past the splash screen, then the instruments usually won't load. But if I cold boot and run KP2 immediately, then it will usually load ok. No other piece of software on this rig has ever behaved like this. NI "support" apparently doesn't want to hear about it.

    I have 2.0Gb of ram on a 3.2Ghz XP pc at SP2 with 3Gb of dedicated disk cache. Nothing is running in the background; 99%+ of the cpu is available. When KP2 freezes, I typically have over 1.6Gb of ram still available. A successful load of the smallish ensemble I'm currently (trying) to work on only takes up around 200Mb.

    Now, just today, all the instrument skins suddenly disappeared, and at the same time it blew away the output routings and aux send levels! I guess some hidden counter somewhere decided I've loaded it one time too many and now it's time to turn everything battleship gray!!

    I'm hoping this erratic hosting software doesn't negatively impact Gary's market penetration and overall product line, but I'm assuming most of Gary's clients don't use the stand-alone version of KP2 anyway, except maybe to audition things and play around with the various parameters.

    Reluctantly, I'm thinking of junking the whole deal and sticking with GPO "classic". Unfortunately, I won't be able to explore Garritan's newer offerings until something more stable comes along (or I upgrade my notation software to something that obviates the need for KP2 altogether, though I'd hoped to delay that expenditure well into the future).

    Conceptually, KP2 is great piece of software -- a fine addition to the Garritan line up and it's just what I needed at this time. But unfortunately, it's just too buggy for everyday use right now.

  2. #2

    Re: KP2 2.2.3.003 - requires cold boot, now skins gone

    wow--It's been quite awhile since I've read a post by someone such major KP2 problems.

    Your computer has twice the RAM and is stronger in every department than mine, but KP2 has been nothing but smooth sailing for me, since day one of installation. Go figure.

    The only difference - and it's major - You're using a notation program and I'm using Sonar. Not that this Should make a difference, but I'm mentioning it.

    What did this mean, Darwin?--"...or I upgrade my notation software to something that obviates the need for KP2 altogether..."

    If you want to use GPO and other Garritan Libraries, how can you obviate the need for the player the instruments run in--?

    Randy B.
    (rbowser)

  3. #3

    Re: KP2 2.2.3.003 - requires cold boot, now skins gone

    If you want to use GPO and other Garritan Libraries, how can you obviate the need for the player the instruments run in--?
    Maybe I can't. I could load KP1 instruments in Cubasis VST without loading GPO studio, so I was assuming KP2 would work the same way (i.e., I could load the KP2 instruments without messing with the hosting player and all its problems. (Overture 4 appears to now allow direct VST hosting, while I am still at version 3). But I just now tested how KP2 works in Cubasis and see that is not the case. The whole Kontakt Player 2 shows up. So, I would have to assume that it would work the same way in the notation programs. On the other had, it seems perhaps the VST version of KP2 is more stable, better tested, and much less buggy than the stand-alone. Which is a good thing, as it appears most are using it this way. Unfortunately, I am not.

    It doesn't seem like the KP2 player has problems at the "application" level, per se. It works as advertised and seems to work very well (when it's working). But when running by itself under Windows, it seems to have all sorts of system-level problems - i.e., won't load, loads slow, screen savers and/or power management muck it up, etc.

    This is always a gray area in software development. The programmers' tools on the hosting platform allow them to write what appears to be stable code to a specific configuration on a specific platform (their development platform), but when taken out into the cold, hard world, there are often problems when encountering certain variations in hardware, configuration, operating system level, etc.

    (Background: I was a software engineer for 17 years).

  4. #4

    Re: KP2 2.2.3.003 - requires cold boot, now skins gone

    Hi Darwin,

    Being a former SE you must be a power user, so you're using an administrator level account right? KP2 does not like running on anything else and responds very sluggishly and does not properly load memory. (On Vista machines it's a good idea to "Run as Administrator.")

    It might also be your soundcard settings in the standalone. Does changing the drivers over to WDM or even MME and increasing the latency help any?

    EDIT: There's also the possibilty of something becoming corrupted. Have you tried reinstalling?

  5. #5

    Re: KP2 2.2.3.003 - requires cold boot, now skins gone

    Hi, Darwin

    I'm starting my day seeing the new additions to your thread. I am Not the Technoid Wonder with answers, so it's not as if I have solutions.

    What I have are some conversational responses and questions:

    "...Maybe I can't. I could load KP1 instruments in Cubasis VST without loading GPO studio, so I was assuming KP2 would work the same way (i.e., I could load the KP2 instruments without messing with the hosting player and all its problems..."

    Do you know that Cubasis VST is a long out-moded version of Cubase? It was replaced by Cubase LE and by all reports is a better, more stable version. I don't think Cubasis is even supported even more.

    But more important - when you were loading KP1 instruments in Cubase, you weren't bypassing the hosting player - that's what KP1 was/is. GPO, being a library of samples, has to have a sampler host through which to play, and the instrument files aren't of any universally recognized type - they Only play through the various special versions of Kontact.

    So it's impossible to load the sounds directly into Any app on their own, without having them inside a play back engine. This is what I was trying to indicate earlier in my first response.

    "...(Overture 4 appears to now now allows direct VST hosting, while I am still at version 3)..."

    Thanks for clearing that up. I had incorrectly assumed you were using the VST version of KP2. That's all I use, since I'm using KP2 and the Garritan libraries inside Sonar. The stand-alone version will open up from my desk top, and I use it sometimes just to quickly audition a sound, but it's limited to only one instrument--!--while the VST plugin has 16 tracks of stereo available, 32 channels.

    "...But I just now tested how KP2 works in Cubasis and see that is not the case. The whole Kontakt Player 2 shows up. So, I would have to assume that it would work the same way in the notation programs..."

    I don't see how it could be otherwise - ?

    "...On the other had, it seems perhaps the VST version of KP2 is more stable, better tested, and much less buggy than the stand-alone. Which is a good thing, as it appears most are using it this way. Unfortunately, I am not..."

    I suppose that could be at least part of your problems. The vast majority of reporting from users online is about the full VST version without its severe channel limitations.

    It of course would be great if you were able to upgrade your Overture so you can use KP2 as a VST.

    Randy B.
    (rbowser)

  6. #6

    Re: KP2 2.2.3.003 - requires cold boot, now skins gone

    Reeqs,

    Yes, I'm admin.

    Yes. I've reinstalled (once). The downside of this is having to go through NI's buggy registration process, which is another unpleasant topic.

    I haven't bothered changing drivers, as I recall, I could only get ASIO to work on the prior set-up, so there seemed little point. Oh. KP2 just crashed as I was checking the Audio drivers. Nice.

  7. #7

    Re: KP2 2.2.3.003 - requires cold boot, now skins gone

    Randy,

    Do you know that Cubasis VST is a long out-moded version of Cubase? It was replaced by Cubase LE and by all reports is a better, more stable version. I don't think Cubasis is even supported even more.
    Yes, but it doesn't matter. Cubasis is not related to the problems I'm having with the stand-alone KP2, and I rarely use Cubasis anyway. I was just illustrating how the KP1 & KP2 VSTs appeared in Cubasis.

    But more important - when you were loading KP1 instruments in Cubase, you weren't bypassing the hosting player - that's what KP1 was/is.
    Well, the point I was making is that GPO Studio does not appear as part of the VST in Cubasis. GPO Studio hosted effects (reverb) as well as the instruments. It also let you easily record the output, a function we've lost with KP2. The instruments (KP1) floated on top of GPO Studio. Running the original GPO as a VST, there was no "studio", just the KP1 player that could host up to eight instruments per instance. On the surface, KP2 appeared analogous, also hosting effects plus instruments. But it is structured differently, in that both effects and instruments are within a single container, which is a good idea. I assumed they might somehow be separated when running as a VST (like the original GPO). But my experiment with Cubasis proved this wrong.

    Thanks for clearing that up. I had incorrectly assumed you were using the VST version of KP2. That's all I use, since I'm using KP2 and the Garritan libraries inside Sonar. The stand-alone version will open up from my desk top, and I use it sometimes just to quickly audition a sound, but it's limited to only one instrument--!--while the VST plugin has 16 tracks of stereo available, 32 channels.
    That's interesting. I can load 64 instruments from the desktop. Have you tried configuring the midi inputs and audio drivers?

    It of course would be great if you were able to upgrade your Overture so you can use KP2 as a VST.
    I am watching the bug reports and hosting issues coming in for Overture 4 and will have to decide if it is worth my time to deal with yet another set of technical issues. I'd really much rather be working on the music.

  8. #8

    Re: KP2 2.2.3.003 - requires cold boot, now skins gone

    Today I have downloaded KP2 2.2.4.001
    "Music is the shorthand of emotion." Leo Tolstoy

    Listen to me, tuning my triangle http://www.box.net/shared/ae822u6r3i

  9. #9

    Re: KP2 2.2.3.003 - requires cold boot, now skins gone

    Today I have downloaded KP2 2.2.4.001
    Thanks for the heads up, Gunther. I'll give it a whirl.

  10. #10

    Re: KP2 2.2.3.003 - requires cold boot, now skins gone

    Today I have downloaded KP2 2.2.4.001
    Gunther, I can't locate this, not through the Service Center and not directly logging onto the NI site. Where did you find it? Is this beta?

    Thanks,
    Darwin

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