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Topic: Pittsburg Brass Band Quick Step March

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  1. #1
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    Pittsburg Brass Band Quick Step March

    Brass choir performs march of CAPT JOHN HERRON
    from 1840.

    hi-fi URL: http://www.soundclick.com/util/getpl...d=6061591&q=hi


    Gary

  2. #2

    Re: Pittsburg Brass Band Quick Step March

    Hi, Gary

    You are always coming up with the most interesting stuff.

    What a quaint, enjoyable little piece this is. Nicely put together by you on GPO also.

    Gary - I've noticed before that you enjoy using the Var 1 control for detuning. I don't neglect it either. And I have to say you use it So much that it results it some pretty wincingly sour notes. Even though it's not uncommon to hear off pitches fairly frequently in live music, when its aural only, --a recording--the nature of it being a recording psychologically magnifies such naturalistic touches. It's just--a bit too much, I find.

    I think you'll find it if its used more sparingly, on fast passages, and for subtle chorusing - then it can work without sounding so much like a rag tag band.

    I hope you can consider that input as an attempt to be helpful.

    Randy B.
    (rbowser)

  3. #3
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    Re: Pittsburg Brass Band Quick Step March

    Thanks Randy.
    The variation I: how do you use it on individual passages?
    I now alter mostly the variation I & II and the time.(that's how I think of them)
    One suggestion was that brass instruments needed higher settings, but I have notice pitch drops and blend problems. Should they be set at "0?"
    Where do you set them? This seems to be appropo to those in this forum.
    No I don't mind criticism. When I don't get any, not enough people are listening. I think that if you feel confident in your work, you always
    seek skills to better your work.
    Gary

  4. #4

    Re: Pittsburg Brass Band Quick Step March

    Hello again, Gary

    My point of reference is Sonar - I use a keyboard and assign my wheel to whatever controller I want, and then record that as part of the file, values 0 to 127. Then I edit the results in the Piano Roll View, or sometimes draw it in there in the first place.

    But you use Finale - Recently there was a thread that explained that there is a MIDI editor in that program. From what I understand, it works basically the same as the Piano Roll View. You put in the amounts you want there.

    Quote Originally Posted by garymosse
    ...
    I now alter mostly the variation I & II and the time.(that's how I think of them)
    One suggestion was that brass instruments needed higher settings, but I have notice pitch drops and blend problems. Should they be set at "0?"...
    In a word, Yes they should be set "0." But you're talking about just setting values in Kontact. That's a set and forget way of doing things, and will apply the same effect to an entire piece. That doesn't work.

    As per what I said above, you work with MIDI controllers in an editor. The manual gives a really good explanation of how Var 1 and 2 are intended to be used very sparingly. It's safe to say that they should be at "0" for 95% of a given piece. Then when you want to use them, you don't suddenly jump them up to a value - they should swoop up and only to a low degree, rarely over a value of 20, and they don't stay there for long or you'll have a section which is noticeably out of tune.

    On fast passages the Var controls are helpful for simulating how pitch will be just a little iffy. For sustained notes in a section, it can be helpful to apply Var 1 to just one of your instruments in a group just varying slightly, to simulate a pitch not being held absolutely perfectly.

    But a little bit goes a long way. You can do perfectly good recordings without using those controls at all. Better none or too little than too much.

    To repeat - pitch variation caNNot be done at one constant level.

    Maybe you haven't used your MIDI editor in Finale. If not, you really need to look into it. Other than hairpins and other dynamic marks, how can else can you apply these other MIDI controllers that can make music so much more organic?

    Randy B.
    (rbowser)

  5. #5
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    Re: Pittsburg Brass Band Quick Step March

    Thanks for the info Randy. It would seem that the Male Dictate,"read instructions only as a last choice" has not worked in this case.
    Gary

  6. #6

    Re: Pittsburg Brass Band Quick Step March

    Hi Gary,

    Not sure if this helps you or not, but I have found that a fairly effective and realistic way to determine the value for Var1 (CC22) and Var2 (CC23) is with the formula:

    CC = 2/x (where x is the duration of each note in seconds)

    For a quarter note at 60 BPM (which has a duration of 1 sec), you get a CC value of 2. For a sixteenth note at 120 BPM (which has a duration of 0.125 sec), you get a CC value of 16.

    If you don't feel the effect is strong enough, you can increase the formula to 3/x or 4/x, but anything above 4/x is probably going to result in a non-subtle effect.

    If you don't want to take the time to calculate the duration of each note to use in the formula, you can still use this formula as a starting point to find the appropriate CC ranges for the slow, medium, and fast passages and then draw in controller curves using those ranges.

    I hope this helps you, Gary.

    PS: I'm interested in hearing what others think about this approach to the Var1 and Var2 parameters. It seems to work for me, and is fairly easy to apply (I'm working on a plug-in to do this in Finale, but I'm a little too busy to learn how to use the Plug-In Development Kit right now).
    Best Regards,
    Ernie

  7. #7
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    Re: Pittsburg Brass Band Quick Step March

    Thanks Ernie.
    In teaching relative note values, a triangle can represent all
    notes to be used.
    Whole
    half half
    quarter quarter quarter quarter

    8th 8th 8th 8th 8th 8th 8th 8th
    etc.

    Couldn't a "number person" devise a comparable table for setting
    the variations? A scale for SLOW, MED. & FAST...

    Gary

  8. #8

    Re: Pittsburg Brass Band Quick Step March

    Another interesting rescue of an obscure piece, Gary!

    Well done; and I did appreciate the discussion above, myself, too.

    Best,


    David
    www.DavidSosnowski.com
    .

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