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Topic: How do I fix this? (Percussion in CMB)

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  1. #1
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    How do I fix this? (Percussion in CMB)

    Okay, I'm using Sonar 7.01 and CMB. In my snare drum group there is a noticeable difference in volume between the single hits and flams and the rolls. If I go into the gears in the player for the snare group I can adjust the volume for the entire snare group. But I need to bring up the volume of the rolls (G3)to match the volume of the single hits (F2) and flams (G2). How can I adjust the volume of an individual note? The velocities are the same for all 3 notes.

    And I haven't even gotten to dynamic changes yet! LOL!

    Any and all help will be greatly appreciated.
    Jerry
    Dayton, Kentucky
    Personally, I'm waiting for caller IQ.

  2. #2

    Re: How do I fix this? (Percussion in CMB)

    Hi Jerry,

    If you're using the VDL drumline in CMB, the snare drum roll volume is controlled with your controller's mod wheel (same as the drum roll sample in GPO). Hope this helps a little.

    Danny

  3. #3
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    Re: How do I fix this? (Percussion in CMB)

    Thanks, Danny. Actually, this helps a LOT! This is my first time dealing with percussion in any of the Garritan libraries and there's a lot to learn.

    Is my train of thought on the right track here? I have all of my percussion set up on channel 10 (normal MIDI channel for percussion.) Can I adjust the volume of each individual note differently from the other notes just by using the mod wheel? Say I have the snare drum group 1 loaded in the player. Will what I record with the mod wheel on note A5 (SD Roll) be different from what I record with the mod wheel on note G4 (SD Single Hit)? This where it gets confusing to me. Is there some documentation I'm missing or is there a percussion tutorial somewhere that I can access?

    And I DO appreciate your help.
    Jerry
    Dayton, Kentucky
    Personally, I'm waiting for caller IQ.

  4. #4

    Re: How do I fix this? (Percussion in CMB)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybee
    Is my train of thought on the right track here? I have all of my percussion set up on channel 10 (normal MIDI channel for percussion.) Can I adjust the volume of each individual note differently from the other notes just by using the mod wheel? Say I have the snare drum group 1 loaded in the player. Will what I record with the mod wheel on note A5 (SD Roll) be different from what I record with the mod wheel on note G4 (SD Single Hit)? This where it gets confusing to me. Is there some documentation I'm missing or is there a percussion tutorial somewhere that I can access?
    Hi Jerry,

    The modwheel affects all notes on the midi channel. But the good news is that most percussion instruments are driven by note velocity. They have one initial volume of sound, so the one-time velocity parameter works well. These velocity sensitive drum hits won't respond to modwheel. The drum roll is one of the few recorded "sustains" in the percussion. It can change over time, so the once-only velocity doesn't work nearly as well as a continuous controller like the modwheel, which can send changes in volume over time.

    Hope this clarifies things a bit,
    Reegs

  5. #5

    Re: How do I fix this? (Percussion in CMB)

    Hi, Jerry

    You've gotten the straight goods on this thread. Quick capsule review:

    --Most percussion instruments in Garritan are controlled only by velocity values.

    --Rolls have the added convenience of mod wheel volume control, so you can roll them up and down, the way they're played in real life.

    So, "...How can I adjust the volume of an individual note? The velocities are the same for all 3 notes..."

    You can see now that you answered your own question. With the velocities the same, you'll be stuck with whatever volume differences you perceive. Adjust the velocities to get the varying volumes you want.

    Hope you're doing well now with your projects.

    Randy B.

  6. #6
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    Re: How do I fix this? (Percussion in CMB)

    Hi Reeqs and Randy,

    Okay, I think I understand what you are telling me. That makes sense. But let me ask this - (speaking of all the tracks, not just percussion) should I set all of my velocities and volumes in the MIDI or should I adjust volumes in the audio tracks (after I've bounced the MIDI to audio?) If I get everything set properly in MIDI it should save me a lot of time when I go to mix and master later, shouldn't it?

    The project I'm working on is the first large project I've done since getting my Garritan libraries so I'm a bit unsure as to the best workflow path to take. I read in a thread here a couple of months ago where someone had listed relative velocities for different dynamic levels. If I follow something like that in general then I should not have need of a lot of volume automation when I start mixing - right?

    I know - it's tough trying to teach a 67 year old novice who taught school for 38 years.

    Thanks again for the help.
    Jerry
    Dayton, Kentucky
    Personally, I'm waiting for caller IQ.

  7. #7
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    Re: How do I fix this? (Percussion in CMB)

    Velocities and controller changes (CC1 especially) should be set in the MIDI world. The sound as well as the volume changes with different velocity levels. Many of the percussion instruments trigger different samples depending on the velocity level. It will trigger soft samples at low velocity and loud samples at higher velocities. Instruments that CC1 for volume changes such as woodwinds and brass also change timbre as they get louder and softer.

    Jim

  8. #8
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    Re: How do I fix this? (Percussion in CMB)

    Quote Originally Posted by Haydn
    Velocities and controller changes (CC1 especially) should be set in the MIDI world. The sound as well as the volume changes with different velocity levels. Jim
    Thanks, Jim. I think I knew that but was not conciously aware of it. (Does that make sense?) But clear this up for my confused mind: do single hit percussion notes have their velocity determined by where the mod wheel is set? If that IS the case, is it not better to "get the notes in the Midi score" and then adjust the CC1 values for each note afterwards according to your musical score? That would seem to me to be the best way to handle dynamic levels and changes.

    I'm still trying to develop an efficient workflow, that's why I ask.

    And thanks for your help. It is all greatly appreciated.
    Jerry
    Dayton, Kentucky
    Personally, I'm waiting for caller IQ.

  9. #9

    Re: How do I fix this? (Percussion in CMB)

    Hello again, Jaybee

    Haydn succinctly replied with exactly what I wanted to write in reply--that you want to do as much as possible in the MIDI realm, because there is a difference in the timbre of instruments (of all kinds) depending on the velocity values.

    I would add that once you've done all that work, there Is extra dynamics work you can accomplish with the faders, as a finishing touch.

    You haven't quite heard what we're saying about the percussion:

    "...do single hit percussion notes have their velocity determined by where the mod wheel is set?..."

    No. We're telling you that those volumes are controlled Only by the velocity values, which can range from 0 to 127. The mod wheel only controls the rolling percussion samples.

    See?

    Randy B.

  10. #10
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    Re: How do I fix this? (Percussion in CMB)

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser-
    We're telling you that those volumes are controlled Only by the velocity values, which can range from 0 to 127. The mod wheel only controls the rolling percussion samples.
    Got it. Guess I'd be classified as a "slow learner." LOL But, with the kind help of the members of this forum such as you and Reeqs and Jim I'll get there. Hopefully we can now close this thread and wait until my next brain cramp.
    Jerry
    Dayton, Kentucky
    Personally, I'm waiting for caller IQ.

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