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Topic: Gondola Ride

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  1. #1

    Gondola Ride

    I'm probably completely out of my mind for posting this link. I'm obviously still learning to navigate the hazardous waters of sequencing, volume and other controllers, and of course learning the Strad. (Which will be no news to those of you who have so graciously lent me a hand--like Gunther who helped me with that stuck note.) I've posted "Gondola Ride" on SongRamp: http://www.songramp.com/mod/mps/view...?trackid=61727
    Please be gentle!


    Barb

    P.S. I never did figure out how to use the harp packets or where to find them, so this will have to do. If there's a tutorial on them somewhere, I'd appreciate being directed to it. (See my post in the General Discussion thread.) Thanks!

  2. #2
    Senior Member Leaf's Avatar
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    Re: Gondola Ride

    No you are not out of your mind
    ... because this is an exceptional beauty you have posted here and the more experienced people here can show you how to make this into the diamond it sounds like it is destined to become.

    DPDan who does remarkable work with these instruments, has posted some info about how he gets them to really sing, in this thread... along with a midi file.
    http://northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57903

    Hope that helps and wish i could help with Harp packets, but i have no idea what they are, Harp packets have had me totally stumped.

    Thanks Barb for posting Gondola Ride, I love it, and will be very interested in hearing it after it is polished.

    David

  3. #3

    Re: Gondola Ride

    Hello Barb!

    Glad to see your first post here in the listening room.
    No... you are not mad... you are a talented musician!
    A well composed piece which I heard with interest and enjoyment!
    It takes time and experience to learn how to swim in the 'hazardous waters of sequencing', I'm still doing it myself...
    Keep on composing, sequencing and posting!

    Yudit

  4. #4

    Re: Gondola Ride

    Yudit & David - Thank you so much for your encouraging words. I shall keep composing and learning to coax the emotion from these beautiful solo strings. I'm looking forward to receiving my Gofriller.

    Barb

    P.S. "All I Ask of You" is exceptionally lovely. Dan is truly a master.

  5. #5

    Re: Gondola Ride

    Although it is obvious that you have a few issues with the technology etc (like we all have had and are still going through) you definitely have a talent for composing and I would encourage you to pursue it so you and everyone else can hear your feeling and thoughts expressed. The tecky stuff has a way of sorting itself out eventually with practice and time.

    thanks for posting - Del
    Music happens to be an art form that transcends language. - Herbie Hancock

    http://www.mdtcommunications.com

  6. #6

    Re: Gondola Ride

    Thanks for the encouragement, Del. I appreciate it.
    I sure hope I get things sorted out before I make myself crazy, though!

    Despite my earlier plea to be gentle, I truly would appreciate input from folks on what I need to do differently to make this better (the "tech-y" stuff). I'm in this for the long run, and for my own pleasure. Mediocrity doesn't interest me overmuch, so I will keep trying to learn and to refine my skills. Thanks.

    Barb

  7. #7

    Re: Gondola Ride

    Hello, Barb "bmurrin"

    This is a very pretty composition, and there's a lot of sophistication on display in the arranging - I'm Really glad you posted it here.

    "Techy stuff"--Sure, I have a tip. You have the violin's attack on notes overly aggressive for much of the piece, and that's exactly what I did first time 'round with the instrument. If you experiment by lowering the velocity values of the first notes in passages, you'll get a more natural, smooth sound which would fit your piece.

    The trick with The Strad is to control the velocities - I'm unable to do it properly in real time, I have to rely on hand editing the MIDI file, but that's no problem to me - that's where the majority of the work is always spent anyway, MIDI editing.

    Passages which are continuous, legato, those can have high velocity values, otherwise you'll constantly get too much portamento.

    Just remember--lower velocities on slurred notes make for more exaggerated legato. Higher velocities in slurred sections will keep things smooth without so much portamento. But high velocities on isolated notes, like the beginnings of phrases, will result in a constantly aggressive sound - those should be softer, achieved with very low velocity values - like "10."

    Maybe that will help!

    Thanks very much for this--I'm quite impressed.

    Randy B.

  8. #8

    Re: Gondola Ride

    Thanks for the specific tips, Randy. I'll go back into the "guts" of the velocity controller track and make those suggested tweaks. (I was pretty excited to be able to add controller lanes yesterday, so that should give you a pretty good idea of where I am with my skill level!) Now that you mention it, it certainly makes sense to have the initial notes of a phrase at a low velocity and to raise the others to better control the portamento. I'd been toying with the idea of going back and trying to record a better first take, but have hesitated to do so since I'm dreadfully uncoordinated at trying to manage all the controls at once. Maybe I don't need to now.

    Allow me to say how much I enjoyed your arrangement of "God Rest Ye, Merry Gentlemen". Very cool...and professional. Did you do it up in notation software, or record directly to tracks in a sequencer? Actually, all the arrangements on the Christmas album were amazing. I'm blown away by the musicianship and skill level of the folks in this forum, and honoured by the support I've received from so many.

    I think I'll work toward getting an arrangement on the 2008 Christmas album. That should be a worthy goal! Perhaps not attainable, but certainly worthy! LOL

    Thanks again. I'll post a new recording of Gondola Ride once I've done some surgery on it. Volumes and balances are also problematic....

    Barb

  9. #9

    Re: Gondola Ride

    Hello again, Barb

    I'm glad my notes about tweaking The Strad's velocity values was helpful to you. I think that when you start experimenting with changing some of those, that you'll be excited by the smoother performance you'll be able to achieve.

    Quote Originally Posted by bmurrin
    Thanks for the specific tips, Randy. I'll go back into the "guts" of the velocity controller track and make those suggested tweaks. (I was pretty excited to be able to add controller lanes yesterday, so that should give you a pretty good idea of where I am with my skill level!)
    Ah, does this mean you're using Cubase? The thing I especially liked during the short period I was using Cubase LE was the ability to add multiple controller lanes in the Piano Roll View, so that the values of several different controllers could be seen and worked on simultaneously. For a long time in Sonar, you could only see one controller at a time. Now they have it so the controller values are superimposed on each other - the one you're currently working with is brighter and more pronounced than the others, but the Cubase approach of adding separate controller panes is still more clear.
    Quote Originally Posted by bmurrin
    Now that you mention it, it certainly makes sense to have the initial notes of a phrase at a low velocity and to raise the others to better control the portamento. I'd been toying with the idea of going back and trying to record a better first take, but have hesitated to do so since I'm dreadfully uncoordinated at trying to manage all the controls at once. Maybe I don't need to now.
    Correction - you not only "maybe" don't need to, you Definitely don't need to record it all at once. I know The Strad was designed so that it's theoretically possible to play it in real time, applying all the controllers at the same time, but most people still don't do it that way. With software programs, DAWS, there's no reason to not work in layers - first recording notes and perhaps cc11 (cc1 for GPO) and then correcting/improving velocity values, adding vibrato, and whatever else we want. It's very much like oil painting where one works in layers and layers in paint--the picture doesn't emerge in one fell swoop of paint.
    Quote Originally Posted by bmurrin
    Allow me to say how much I enjoyed your arrangement of "God Rest Ye, Merry Gentlemen". Very cool...and professional. Did you do it up in notation software, or record directly to tracks in a sequencer?
    I've never worked with a notation program, but only in DAWs like Sonar and Cubase. Though I work in small sections at a time and do Massive amounts of editing both in the MIDI realm and then in the Audio realm, I still feel the need to actually play passages from a keyboard. The need for printed music is very rare for me, so there's no appeal for me to laboriously enter notes by hand and then deal with the incredible acrobatics notation users have to go through to make an organic sounding recording.

    Thanks for that--glad you liked my "God Rest Ye..." It was a very fun project.
    Quote Originally Posted by bmurrin

    Actually, all the arrangements on the Christmas album were amazing. I'm blown away by the musicianship and skill level of the folks in this forum, and honoured by the support I've received from so many.

    I think I'll work toward getting an arrangement on the 2008 Christmas album. That should be a worthy goal!
    It really is a fantastic collection of music. Everyone did such excellent work. Most but not all are people who have used Garritan libraries for some time, but several relative newcomers got on the CD also. There's no reason you shouldn't work on an arrangement for next year. There's already a thread in General Discussion where people are choosing carols to work on.

    I look forward to your next post, Barb!

    Randy B.

  10. #10

    Re: Gondola Ride

    Hi, Randy

    Yes, your notes were very helpful--as were your subsequent comments about the "layer" approach (notes and CC11/CC1--I even knew what you were talking about!--then tweaks to the velocity values, then vibrato, etc.) I admit that looking at it that way relieves considerable pressure.

    I'm using Cubase, as you surmised. Now that I've discovered the controller lanes, I'm excited about the possibilities and control available to me...or perhaps I should say by the artistic control that will become manageable by me as I practice with it.

    I noticed that "The Shepherds' Lonely Vigil" by Jerry Wickham was an original song. At least I believe I read that somewhere. (It's also incredibly beautiful.) I think that's the first time an original composition has been used on a Garritan Christmas compilation, isn't it? I'm toying with the idea of working on one of the songs I wrote for my a cappella chorus and wondering if I should include a vocal with it so that people know what it says, or stick to an instrumental arrangement. I'm leaning toward the latter. I do believe I'll take a peek at the 2008 album thread. (This is very bold of me!)

    Barb

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