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Topic: 2 CC1 questions

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  1. #1
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    2 CC1 questions

    Using Sonar with CMB. My MIDI keyboard has a very noisy mod wheel so I am trying to manually set the volumes and tracks by hand by drawing in the CC1 controller messages in the controller pane of the PRV. When I go to set up th controller message I get a dialog box which asks me for the CC and the channel. Setting the CC is not a problem but . . . do I set the channel for the same channel as the track itself? i.e. my tuba track is on Midi channel 16 so do I set the CC1 controller messages for that track also to Midi channel 16?

    2nd question gets me back to my problem with percussion. I can adjust the note velocities on the single hits, etc. by adjusting the individual velocities in the controller pane. However, when I try to adjust the volume of the rolls by setting the CC1 levels within the track I get no change in volume. I thought that CC1 controlled the volume of the sustaining notes in the perccussion? What did I miss?

    As always, TIA.
    Jerry
    Dayton, Kentucky
    Personally, I'm waiting for caller IQ.

  2. #2

    Re: 2 CC1 questions

    I can probably help a little.

    When I go to set up th controller message I get a dialog box which asks me for the CC and the channel. Setting the CC is not a problem but . . . do I set the channel for the same channel as the track itself? i.e. my tuba track is on Midi channel 16 so do I set the CC1 controller messages for that track also to Midi channel 16?
    I do not think it is necessary, but it is sure cleaner to set the CCs to the same channel that the track is using. It certainly makes it clearer to you as to what part the CC is for. I do it as standard practice.


    2nd question gets me back to my problem with percussion. I can adjust the note velocities on the single hits, etc. by adjusting the individual velocities in the controller pane. However, when I try to adjust the volume of the rolls by setting the CC1 levels within the track I get no change in volume. I thought that CC1 controlled the volume of the sustaining notes in the percussion?
    Well, not seeing your score, I don't know what you set up as the cymbal part. If it is a cymbal that is sampled as a roll, then CC#1 should effect it. Is the note long enough? If it is written as an eighth note there won't be any time for the volume to take effect. If you have a whole note and are still not getting a roll to change dynamics then I don't have an answer. If you are writing the roll your self with a series of 32nd notes or faster then again CC#1 won't have time to effect each note and it starts all over with the next note. If it is a roll you are doing with a non-rolling cymbal part then the velocity will do it but it shouldn't be extremely even notes which will sound too robotic. Play it yourself and save the midi file of the roll for future use.

    There will probably be some better answers than these come along for you, but I thought I would give you my ideas. I hope that they help.
    [Music is the Rhythm, Harmony and Breath of Life]
    "Music is music, and a note's a note" - Louis 'Satchmo' Armstrong

    Rich

  3. #3
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    Re: 2 CC1 questions

    Quote Originally Posted by RichR
    Well, not seeing your score, I don't know what you set up as the cymbal part. If it is a cymbal that is sampled as a roll, then CC#1 should effect it. Is the note long enough? If it is written as an eighth note there won't be any time for the volume to take effect. If you have a whole note and are still not getting a roll to change dynamics then I don't have an answer. If you are writing the roll your self with a series of 32nd notes or faster then again CC#1 won't have time to effect each note and it starts all over with the next note. If it is a roll you are doing with a non-rolling cymbal part then the velocity will do it but it shouldn't be extremely even notes which will sound too robotic. Play it yourself and save the midi file of the roll for future use.
    Actually, no. It's a snare drum roll I'm having a problem with. I'm using the SD note which is assigned to the roll (A6) as a quarter note (The roll lasts for an entire beat at a tempo of QN=96.) I cannot seem to change the volume level of the note (roll) using a CC1 change in level. No matter what value I set for CC1, whether it be 30 or 95, the volume stays the same. So, there MUST be something I'm missing.

    Thanks for your input.
    Jerry
    Dayton, Kentucky
    Personally, I'm waiting for caller IQ.

  4. #4

    Re: 2 CC1 questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybee
    I cannot seem to change the volume level of the note (roll) using a CC1 change in level. No matter what value I set for CC1, whether it be 30 or 95, the volume stays the same. So, there MUST be something I'm missing.
    If you want the volume to change on the note, make sure that you draw in CC1 continuously. If you just want a constant roll, then I'm not sure what the problem is.

    --Richard

  5. #5

    Re: 2 CC1 questions

    It is good practice to ensure that ALL MIDI controllers relate to a particular channel to avoid confusion of data.

  6. #6
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    Re: 2 CC1 questions

    I use Sonar and just set the keyboard to OMNI. Sonar takes care of routing the channels to the correct plugin and MIDI channel. All my tracks are on sending out on Channel 1. I've never had a problem with VST plugins doing it this way for 10 years. Hardware synths though are another issue though and I set the channel fo these guys.

    Jim

  7. #7

    Re: 2 CC1 questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Haydn
    I use Sonar and just set the keyboard to OMNI. Sonar takes care of routing the channels to the correct plugin and MIDI channel. All my tracks are on sending out on Channel 1. I've never had a problem with VST plugins doing it this way for 10 years. Hardware synths though are another issue though and I set the channel fo these guys.

    Jim
    I do the same thing, and I have not had a problem. I don't use any hardware synths, so I don't have to worry about that.

    --Richard

  8. #8

    Re: 2 CC1 questions

    Perhaps I'm just too tidy in my approach

    *** For tidy read pedantic lol ***

  9. #9
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    Re: 2 CC1 questions

    Sorry, guys. I've been out of town the past 2 days and just got in tonight. I'm okay with the answers pertaining to my 1st question. However, I still can't figure out what's the problem with the volume of my drum rolls (A6) and not being able to draw in CC1 values which are being read and played accurately by Sonar. Help!
    Jerry
    Dayton, Kentucky
    Personally, I'm waiting for caller IQ.

  10. #10

    Re: 2 CC1 questions

    Jerry:
    1. What drum kit from CMB are you using for your snare roll?
    2. You refer to "A6"--do you refer to Middle C as C3 or C4? I see several drums listed as A5. Middle C is MIDI note 60--what MIDI note number is your A? The note numbers rise chromatically.
    3. If you can do so, I urge you to create a separate track for each drum. That will eliminate the problem of mixing differnt types of instrument, as I might have mentioned earlier. There is a CAL routine that will split drum tracks. If you don't have it, email me & I will try to find it & attach it to a reply. Your percussion tracks will thank you for that!

    Jim

    EDIT: I assume you are using the snare drum single instrument. There is a roll on A4. It responded to CC1 just fine for me, doing what I describe below with the hairpin.
    Just to make sure, you might want to create a hairpin that goes from a CC1 value of 10 or so, then rises to 120 or so, then back down to 10. You should hear a difference if you have routed properly

    My guess is that you have a routing problem in which the CC1 data is not going to its intended track. Yet another reason to split out your drum tracks.
    Jim Williams
    Professor of Capitalism
    N9EJR
    Indianapolis Brass Choir
    All Your Bass Sus&Short Are Belong to Us.

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