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Topic: All Together Now

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  1. #1

    All Together Now

    I'm trying to figure out if I've got a problem with my strings lagging the guitar or if the guitar is racing ahead in this 15 second snippet. I'm using Finale2008a and GPO/JABB exclusively.

    AUDIO ==> http://www.box.net/shared/i8cvp0740k

    Is it me or are things sounding out of sync, especially with the lower strings? And if things are out of sync, where under the hood should I start looking?

    Thanks in advance,

    Ken
    (RustyCrook)

  2. #2

    Re: All Together Now

    Hi, Ken

    You are DEFinitely right that this is out of whack. The strings are lagging noticeably behind the guitar, sounding like we're only hearing a delayed echo of them.

    It could be as simple as the usual problem that has happened with string patches since the beginning of MIDI. Unless it's a "Marcato" string patch with a fast attack, strings come in late because of the swelling up on the attack.

    The solution traditionally has been to offset the string tracks by a tiny amount, moving them forward so that the swell hits the entrance mark. The slight sound before the swell does become ahead of the beat that way, but it sounds right.

    In sequencers there's a utility on every track which off-sets the data by whatever amount you want, forward or backward.

    In Finale - I don't know.

    That's one possible reason though--because those do sound like Lush strings, or if they're not, you're at least using string samples with slow attacks. If you have changed the attack time in KP2, you'll want to change it back to the default, or make if faster.

    Randy B.

  3. #3

    Re: All Together Now

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser-
    That's one possible reason though--because those do sound like Lush strings, or if they're not, you're at least using string samples with slow attacks. If you have changed the attack time in KP2, you'll want to change it back to the default, or make if faster.
    Hi Randy,

    You're quite right -- I was using the GPO Lush strings. I'll check for an offset in Finale. I'll also experiment with the velocity and CC1 settings because I intentionally set those values very low to keep the strings in the background.

    Thanks!

    Ken

  4. #4

    Re: All Together Now

    Ah! Good - Hey, do I have Golden Ears or what?

    I've only rarely used the Lush strings because of precisely that issue, Ken. The big ingredient to their "lushness" is a very gentle slooooow attack - which makes them late. When I've used them, I've grabbed the sections of the track they're in, and shifted them left until they lock into the beat.

    I feel you would be just as well off using the other string instruments with more normal attacks, and using them with mutes on, keeping the volume lower, etc.

    But just tweaking the velocities and cc1 values with what you have won't fix your problem - the gentle slow swell will still be there no matter what you do, because that's the way the samples were recorded.

    Hopefully you can either off set the strings, or try different instruments.

    Randy B.

  5. #5

    Re: All Together Now

    Nice string writing in this, Ken!

    I've run into this with the lush strings, myself, by the
    way... as per Randy's comments, it seems to be just
    a broadly different set of attacks between the lush
    strings and something with so percussive an envelope
    as the guitar.

    One solution I've used was to mix in solo violins or
    one of the other strings patches on the same channel;
    which preserves the lush feel, but gives the attack
    a little more bite.

    With Finale, that means thinking a little ahead on how
    you're going to set up your VST's; but it's fairly easy
    to do.

    Best,


    David
    www.DavidSosnowski.com
    .

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