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Topic: Trojan Asteroids

  1. #1

    Trojan Asteroids

    The Trojan Asteroids are in the same plane and orbit as Jupiter but are 60 degrees ahead and behind. So if Jupiter is at 12 o’clock, the asteroids are at 2 o’clock in front and at 10 o’clock trailing Jupiter. I imagine that they are twisting and tumbling and running into each other all the time.

    I composed the first part of this on Jan 5 of this year and the middle yesterday. The middle section is very tonal and might be a surprise to those that are unaware that I can also compose tonally. I will add here that I know absolutely nothing about playing the Harp. For all I know this may be totally impossible to play, or might be kid stuff.

    Here is Trojan Asteroids
    Edit..( I have added more reverb, is it too much or not enough?)


    Here is a score for those who wish to read along

    Here is just the Tonal section


    All of the instruments are GPO and JABB

    Comments are greatly appreciated


  2. #2

    Re: Trojan Asteroids

    well, it's very interesting, I found the recording a little bit dry.. I'd have liked a bit more reverb.

    a comment I'd like to make: why do your refer to the middle section as "tonal"? The whole thing is tonal, as far as I can tell. Dissonance doesn't mean atonal. I think the word you are looking for, instead of "tonal", is diatonic.

    I rather liked the sort of orchestral texture you built up here. It's nice to hear a large-ish chamber ensemble.

  3. #3

    Re: Trojan Asteroids


    I often use a lot of chromaticism in my works. I realize that this (especially the middle) is very diatonic. Many of the ones at YC do not understand the difference you are making and I am often told over there that my works are atonal, when in reality there is just less that is diatonic.

    I will try to be more exact in the future.

    When it comes to the reverb, I have a problem that I wonder if others have as well.

    Each time I change either the software I am using or the file format, the piece sounds drastically different.

    I run the wav file thru Sonar and get a wav file that sounds one way. Then I take that wav into Audacity and export a mp3 that sounds a bit different. Then I post that and listen to the posted version and it again is different.

    So I try to guess what the final outcome will be and always seem to guess on the dry side.

    I do agree that this is too dry, but when I mixed it in sonar, it sounded like it was being played in the Grand Canyon.

    I will do it again regardless and as usual, hope for the best.

    Thank you for taking the time to comment on this.

    I have taken 1 listen so far on your Orient Express piece and will listen a couple more times before I comment on it. I usually like to listen to a a piece at least twice before saying anything, but yours always seem to get more listens.

    Thanks again


  4. #4

    Re: Trojan Asteroids

    I don't know very much about mastering audio files... so don't take anything I say in that regard too seriously. It just sounded like it could use a bit more reverb to my ear.

    Like I said, however, one thing I really liked was the large chamber music texture. It's novel and a genre that too often gets ignored.

  5. #5

    Re: Trojan Asteroids


    Most of my works are built around Chamber instrumentation. In this area (Baltimore/Washington D.C.), Chamber music is making a comeback and I feel that if I compose that way, I have a better chance of someday getting performed.

    I also figure that it is easier to expand a piece for full orchestra than to cut it down for smaller ensembles. But that is just a guess.

    thanks again


  6. #6

    Re: Trojan Asteroids

    Nice work. Lots of variations in color from a small group of instruments.

    Of course I'm most intrigued by the use of a scientific subject as inspiration for a symphonic work. Perhaps, one day, when more people are marrying these two, we will develop methods and procedures that allow us to more directly make use of the physical and mathematical elements of the inspiration; akin to the word painting, speech-like phrasings, et al that can be used to bring elements of a poetic text into the music inspired by it.

    As it is I can totally hear the twisting and tumbling you imagined, against the background of the stately overall orbit. The piece works for me. In some part of my mind, though, I wonder how it would be possible to show that harmonic (!) relationship between the gravitational attraction of sun and Jupiter that creates these cusps of stability.

    Just random thoughts on a rare morning off!

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Penfield (Rochester), NY

    Re: Trojan Asteroids


    Very interesting work on a cool topic. I think it is great that you used the scientific as the inspiration. Certainly a astroid field would have a rich variety of variations in it just as this work contains many ideas and twists and turns. Thanks for sharing it here.



  8. #8

    Re: Trojan Asteroids

    nomuse (I have a drunken one you can have if you want. This muse is totally unreliable and a pain to work with but occasionally sobers up and comes up with interesting stuff.)

    I will admit this down here where not as many will see it.

    Astronomy has fascinated me since the first time I looked up and knew that I could see stars and planets. I always wanted to be an astronaut when I grew up. Unfortunately, I never grew up.

    I have known the names of the Planets, dozens of stars and where to find them and know most of the major constellations. Last December I was reading something and the article mentioned the Trojan Asteroids. I had never before heard of them so I looked them up and was aghast that they were in our solar system and I didn't know about them. No one was around and yet I still felt embarrassed.

    The LaGrange points (actually areas not points) are neat Mathematical solutions.
    The forces that make all this possible are neat to study. We, as in the United States, are using them in our own planetary orbit with satellites designed to study the sun. Negligible Mass is a neat mathematical idea. Beats Quantum physics no mass ideas, hands down.


    What always gets me is that even after all the collisions these things have, they still reach a form of equalibrium that keeps most of them from straying away.

    Thanks guys for the listen and the comments


  9. #9

    Re: Trojan Asteroids

    Since you are the OP, you won't mind so much if we take this further OT?

    The Lagrange Points are just one of those wonderful mathematical relationships that crop up in a multi-body gravitational system. Take the 3:2 orbit-to-spin resonance of Mercury -- that just HAS to have a musical analog (shades of Pythagorus!)

    A personal "project" of mine doomed to never leave the scribble stage was inspired while I was listening to Haydn's "The Creation"; to wit, a secular oratio celebrating Humanity's discovery of the glories of the universe through the developing science of Astronomy.

  10. #10

    Re: Trojan Asteroids

    I love that Mercury's Day is longer than its year.

    I have tried to teach that concept to some of my students (6th thru 8th) and most of them get lost or tune out pretty quick.

    LaGrange was trying to get an easier way to describe things without using all of Newton's (My Hero) equations. The L1 thru L5 just were a byproduct of LaGranges ...dare I say it ...laziness.

    From what I remember of him, he hated having to go thru all the calculations required using Newton's laws, and figured that there has to be a better way. Often times the lazy man finds the easiest way to get the job done and in this case. other applications as well.

    Non-linear Algebra, as well as calculus, has a lot of neat and precise equations that are responsible for many of lifes fun toys.


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