Vote for Orchestration Challenge 15!

[wrayer]

I am bumping to see if anyone else still wants to vote.

[Hannes_F]

Since we have such a clear winner I think it may be allowed to appreciate the entries without distorting competition. I prefer to review the entries as long as they are still anonymus.

#01 I like the versatility in instrument coice and tempo here, also the work with the thematic material.

#02 I skip this one

#03 This was an entry I played for several of my friends and every time it produced good mood and joy. No idea why it did not get any voting, it still is good and was amoung my favorites.

#04 A beginning that could fit to a contemporary concert piece and the consequent use of percussion made this very original.

#05 The use of the Concert and Marching Band is what fits to the theme very naturally, so it is a good choice for an impressive arrangement. Maybe in this competition relation the pieces were slight in favor that did the contrary and avoided heraldic trumpets. But in itself I think this one would be very effective.

#06 The contrast of brass and timpani vs. strings for the two parts of the theme comes very natural. Good rendering quality also.

#07 The beauty of the piano sound made this intriguing from second one. Also in this surrounding it was the entry that was different, so a deserved winner.

#08 Dreamlike use of thematic and harmonic tissue. Very fine thinking in the voice leading choices also.

#09 Good-mooded use of CoMB with fugato-like structures.

#10 Creating a broad, symphonic and uplifting soundscape with skillful use of the instrument groups, very fine.

[wrayer]

Well, since I know I won't be getting anymore votes and the polling has been going for over two weeks, I will claim responsibility for Number 5.

I agree with Hannes_F that Number 7 was quite different and grab my attention right away. Whoever wrote this piece took to it to an unexpected realm. I really enjoyed it.

[sanyarem]

I like the idea of giving credit to the ones I was unable to vote for (the other 8 ) But since I'm pressed for time right now, i'm just going to mention the comments that stick out in my memory.

Entry 1: I really appreciated the variety of instruments used in this one.
Entry 3: Like Hannes said, I'm surprised this one didn't get any votes, it was in my top 3 as far as my personal judging went.

Entry 7: Well, ya, it was great
Entry 8: This one won my vote, it seemed to have a nice balance of the original melody as well as some original sections.

By the way, anyone who has seen some of my previous posts could probably guess which entry is mine

[rbowser-]

I agree that it's pretty much time to put this Orchestration Challenge to rest. My gosh it started So long ago--months!

But it's by far the most unbalanced voting I've ever seen--Very curious situation. #7 is very nice, rather in the "New Age" genre as I noted before. But it's very surprising to me, even perplexing that it should be so hugely the favorite.

I think Hannes is certainly right that part of the reason #7 stands out is because it's so different from any of the others - but I don't understand why that makes it a clear and "deserved winner." The theme was clearly a fanfare, and the entries which stayed true to the theme's original intention surely shouldn't be penalized. Very interesting reaction!

But then I've certainly seen that kind of dynamic happen in other situations - The painting in a gallery which is a dramatically different style from the rest of the collection gets the most attention, simply since it is different, not because it's "better." --An actor in a small supporting comic role can burst on in a play, do his short scene and "steal the show" simply because his scene was in such high contrast to the rest of the show--but it doesn't mean his performance was "better." -- And so on. Interesting stuff.

#7 is very nice, and I just took another listen to #2 which Hannes for some unexplained reason said he skipped--?!--It's a brief but excellent orchestration of the theme. In fact, I find all of the entries of very high quality.

If the voting could magically reflect my own feeling, they would all be neck-and-neck -The imbalance in the voting seems so very odd to me!

But this should be wrapped up soon. It'll be great to hear what #7's arranger comes up with for the new Challenge theme!

Randy B.

[schneb]

--Cinematic? Which version to use in a movie? Interesting! I don't now how that criteria came up, but obviously we can approach listening to music however we want. I just thought this was more about listening to various orchestration approaches for the theme, and not about thinking the pieces were supposed to be fitting a particular market or genre.

It wasn't, of course, that is why I wrote the caveat in my post. Rather than saying, "I like all of them and its hard to choose", I set a high, personal standard by which to judge. This was for me, and me alone, of course, because I LOVE Soundtrack music and believe as the Church supported the creation of much of our Classical music of yesterday, the movies are supporting our Classical music of tomorrow.

[rbowser-]

Hiya, schneb - Nice to hear from you again. Interesting stuff, thanks for talking more about what you meant earlier.

So the "caveat" you're referring to in your earlier reply is that your own criteria for good music is if it could be used in a film sound track. Correct?

As a philosophically motivated reply, not intending to be arbitrarily argumentative, - I have to honestly say I don't know what it means for music to be "cinematic."

There have been many fashions in musical styles that have come and gone during the course of film history, but a great deal of effective sound track work doesn't come close to being in the "classical" style you're mentioning. What about the great use there has been of folk music, gospel music, jazz, rock music, primitive music...? - It seems clear to me that any music in existence could potentially be used in a movie. We have the current John Williams grand European Orchestral style of film scores, but that's certainly not the only one that exists.

And that's why I'm not getting how the criteria for "good music" can be reduced to some narrowly defined version of what is "cinematic." With all styles of music available to a film maker to underscore his/her film - isn't the broader category of just Music the one where that sound track can come from? From purely percussive sound tracks, to string quartets, to garage rock bands, to pieces from the authentically classic catalogs, to soundscapes of purely electronic bleeps and bloops--any Music that exists can end up on a film and in consequence be called "cinematic"---but the term "cinematic" itself doesn't describe anything in particular.

Hence -

Randy B.

[garymosse]

When I was teaching Elementary, Middle School & High School kids about using words to describe Music, the usual feedback was good or bad.
That's because most of them were using the TONE SPONGE effect to make their decisions.
People of different stages in listening skills will seldom use similar
words to describe music. Mostly, you can never accurately gauge what or how music is judged for a large audience.
When I think of Cinematic music, I first think of the many pieces written for movies in the 30's, 40's & 50's. Definitely identifiable after you've heard enough of them.
I just saw a movie THE BUCKET LIST (?) which was a great movie, but I thought the music was mostly xxzzrtp level.
MUSIC in general is a place to save money in most public venues.
Thank about how the BIG BANDS 0f the 40's became combo groups
because of pay.
I"M rambling...
Gary

[SeanHannifin]

And that's why I'm not getting how the criteria for "good music" can be reduced to some narrowly defined version of what is "cinematic." With all styles of music available to a film maker to underscore his/her film - isn't the broader category of just Music the one where that sound track can come from? From purely percussive sound tracks, to string quartets, to garage rock bands, to pieces from the authentically classic catalogs, to soundscapes of purely electronic bleeps and bloops--any Music that exists can end up on a film and in consequence be called "cinematic"---but the term "cinematic" itself doesn't describe anything in particular.

Hence -

But as you say, "cinematic" is a broad term, eh? And just about as subjective as "good music".

Probably the easiest definition I would use for "cinematic music" is "music that, for the listener, evokes the emotions and memories he commonly attributes to watching films that make him feel the most powerful emotions."

So "cinematic" is certainly still a very valid criteria for "good music" ... it's just as subjective as any criteria might, and probably will, be. No less valid, though.

Anyway, I'll take the official vote count Tuesday afternoon when the poll will have be open for 2 weeks exactly, though I think it's pretty clear which entry has won...

Many thanks to all participants and all who listened and voted!!

[rbowser-]

Cool, Sean

I think probably the majority would know what you mean by that definition of "cinematic music."

I'm not really saying it's a subjective description--I'm saying that since music for films can be of any style imaginable, to me "Cinematic" as a designation doesn't mean anything. To be true to the history of film scores--"Cinematic" would mean, "it's symphonic, or rock, or Rag Time, or Rap, or percussive, or classical, or Jazz, or electronic or...etc forever." In other words--it doesn't describe anything at all specific.

I think generally people are actually referring to symphonic film scores when they use that term, but--what about all the other kinds of scores?

--Movie music doesn't make us think about emotions and memories we associate with movies--it Is the music written for specific films.

-- I think what I'm saying is that what I notice when people describe something as "cinematic" - they're talking about just one particular cinematic style which has been popular for the last few decades, lush, often bombastic, Wagnerian, often Romantic - But there are thousands of film scores which are nothing like that. --Oh well, I just don't get it I guess.

"Cinematic" is as specific (not) as it would be to say that something is "Vinyl music--You know, the kind they used to put on Vinyl records"---when, of course, every type of music under the sun was put on records.

Hey - maybe I just discovered a new pet peeve. Yeah that's it I guess--because I honestly don't know what people mean by "Cinematic" and when they use the term, it's like they haven't said anything--even though I've probably used the term myself a few times. Actually when I see that phrase, it seems to me they're saying there's something cliche about the music--like "OH, it's big and broad like John Williams or something." And I certainly know of more than a few musicians who would be insulted if there was music was described as "Cinematic" in the modern, pop culture sense.

And so on.

Looking forward to a wrap on this Challenge, and hearing what arranger #7 has for a theme!---I wonder if it will be-->gasp<--CINEmatic--Naaah, it'll be Wyndom Hillish don't you think?

Randy B.