Vote for Orchestration Challenge 15!

[fiziwig]

Personally, I thought number 3 was dreadful!

I can say that because it was my entry. I did it just a week after first getting GPO. If I had waited until I learned a little more about how to use the software I probably could have made a better rendering of it. (Just thought I'd better go public with my excuse. )


--gary

[englishgent]

Personally, I thought number 3 was dreadful!

I can say that because it was my entry. I did it just a week after first getting GPO. If I had waited until I learned a little more about how to use the software I probably could have made a better rendering of it. (Just thought I'd better go public with my excuse. )

--gary

No WAY! I had that pegged as a Larry Alexander work for sure. What do I know. And no, it was NOT dreadful. It was great fun and very inventive (much more so than mine).

Owen

[englishgent]

Well, since I know I won't be getting anymore votes and the polling has been going for over two weeks, I will claim responsibility for Number 5.

I agree with Hannes_F that Number 7 was quite different and grab my attention right away. Whoever wrote this piece took to it to an unexpected realm. I really enjoyed it.

What a clever idea, incorporating that John Williams quote! Who would have thought that it would fit so well. It made me smile when I heard it.

It's a fine arrangement.

Owen

[wrayer]

What a clever idea, incorporating that John Williams quote! Who would have thought that it would fit so well. It made me smile when I heard it.

It's a fine arrangement.

Owen

Ouch, I've been caught plagerizing! Ah well, best form of flattery they say! I only borrowed four measures judge...

Yes, I thought it fit the fanfarish type melody.

[SeanHannifin]

Cool, Sean

I think probably the majority would know what you mean by that definition of "cinematic music."

I'm not really saying it's a subjective description--I'm saying that since music for films can be of any style imaginable, to me "Cinematic" as a designation doesn't mean anything. To be true to the history of film scores--"Cinematic" would mean, "it's symphonic, or rock, or Rag Time, or Rap, or percussive, or classical, or Jazz, or electronic or...etc forever." In other words--it doesn't describe anything at all specific.

I think generally people are actually referring to symphonic film scores when they use that term, but--what about all the other kinds of scores?

Similarly you could say "good music" doesn't mean anything to you because there are so many styles of it... but I do not think "cinematic" is usually meant as an objective description of style, especially since what style feels "cinematic" to you will be subjective. By this definition, you could have "uncinematic" film scores... film scores you certainly heard at the cinema, but didn't evoke the emotions you consider to be "cinematic". Similarly, everyone who is writing music today is writing "modern" music, by a certain definition at least, but the term "modern music" has come to mean different things to different people.

--Movie music doesn't make us think about emotions and memories we associate with movies--it Is the music written for specific films.

Well, only if you define it that way... again, I think the term has come to mean something different, even if it doesn't match the simple dictionary definition.

-- I think what I'm saying is that what I notice when people describe something as "cinematic" - they're talking about just one particular cinematic style which has been popular for the last few decades, lush, often bombastic, Wagnerian, often Romantic - But there are thousands of film scores which are nothing like that. --Oh well, I just don't get it I guess.

I don't know, from this I think you do get it, you just don't necessarily agree with the imprecise wording? I would agree that it is imprecise, but only because of its subjectiveness... if that makes sense. For the most part, I think it's safe to assume that the person using the word is indeed referring to the style you describe here... lush, bombastic, symphonic, Romantic, etc... but only if you care about a more precise description of style. But I think "cinematic" is meant to describe an emotional reaction more than anything else, like "good music" (though I'm sure there are plenty out there who may not judge music based on the emotions it evokes, which to me seems ... well ... stupid ).

[schneb]

Similarly you could say "good music" doesn't mean anything to you because there are so many styles of it... but I do not think "cinematic" is usually meant as an objective description of style, especially since what style feels "cinematic" to you will be subjective.

Sean, you brought up some very valid points. What I mean by Cinematic (and as rbowser touched upon in his stimulating response) is that it evoked an emotional response and pictures within my head. OK, I will tell you that I too voted for #7 for just those reasons.

Yes, there are many genres represented in movies. For example, The Color Purple had many genres represented--Jazz, Blues, Gospel, and the film score itself. Each worked according to the scene assigned. However, the actual score is what I mean by "cinematic". The soft and tender melody that reprises throughout the film evokes an emotional response within my soul. Another soundtrack by Michael Kaman for the mini series Band of Brothers can stand on its own without the movie. That piece, more than many, evokes so much emotion in both its melody and orchestration, that often I find myself on the verge of tears. This is what I mean by cinematic. That which brings up images and emotions, and as a film maker who devotes a great deal of money to a project, I would want music just like #7 to accompany it.

[rbowser-]

hehe--You're a sport, Sean, trying to 'splain this to me. But I still stubbornly don't get it. You keep describing a very narrow range of film score music and saying you think that's what most people mean by "Cinematic"--and I'm saying that considering there is a huge depth of variety in film music, that doesn't describe anything specific at all. It's so vague as to be meaningless.

I understand that it's possible most people are thinking of only a specific and very modern style of film composing--but I don't know why they should do that, and I refuse to.

There are catch phrases to describe music which are all reductionist and over-simplifications, like "TV Sit com music"--we think we're describing something, but we're not, because like film scores, there has been a Vast variety of musical styles used for TV shows. We say "advertising jingle music"--same point applies.

I guess I don't like categories, even though they're handy points of reference, but they're such limiting, reductionist phrases that we're not really communicating when we use them. Someone could very well say "Randy, that was a very cinematic piece you wrote" and they'll mean it as praise, and I'll get That part --but I'll have no idea what they're really saying. Cinematic, as in what they used to play in silent film houses?--as in the big grand scores of 1930's adventure movies?--sophisticated symphonic jazz as in 1950's films?--whaaaaaat? I guess they'll mean that they think it would be nice as a film score---and my reply is, what Wouldn't make a nice film score?--Theoretically, ANy kind of music could work in a movie.

AND so on.

When does this challenge end? ---yawn----it's kinda Over isn't it?

Randy B.

[rbowser-]

Excellent, - thanks for your new post, schneb.

You described very well what you mean, as did Sean. I appreciate it.

"...What I mean by Cinematic (and as rbowser touched upon in his stimulating response) is that it evoked an emotional response and pictures within my head. OK, I will tell you that I too voted for #7 for just those reasons..."

That's - Music. Music evokes emotional responses and conjurs pictures in our minds. It doesn't have to be tied to actual, literal visuals.

Most of the music ever written was composed before there were movies. Beethoven and Wagner, to pick out two Biggies, wrote highly evocative music before there were movies--it wouldn't be very appropriate to call their music "Cinematic," even though of course their pieces have been used effectively in film.

To me, insisting that good music which we have an emotional resonse to has to be filtered through our love of movies - it's an odd way to experience music which can Always be enjoyed on its own, without visuals.

Maybe we can say "Great Gaming Music" - and reduce music to yet another pop culture category.

Trying to think about whatever I personally might mean by saying something is "Cinematic"--#7 in this thread wouldn't be the one I'd choose on that basis. If I was narrowing my choices down to what I'd like to hear on a film score, there are probably 3 or 4 other pieces here I'd choose instead.---But, thinking of what would be nice coupled with a movie was the last thing I was thinking of when I listened to these arrangements. I was just hearing--Music, with all the emotional responses and imagery that music always conjurs.

GUYS---I thank you for the fun diversion this morning. I've been chewing on an especially tricky staging challenge on my show, diverting myself with this good conversation.

But Now--back to work with me!

Thanks again.

Randy B.

[KE Peace]

Personally, I thought number 3 was dreadful!

I can say that because it was my entry. I did it just a week after first getting GPO. If I had waited until I learned a little more about how to use the software I probably could have made a better rendering of it. (Just thought I'd better go public with my excuse. )


--gary

Gary,

I thought it was hilarious! Out of all the entries, except for mine which I play anyway because I listen to / review my music alot, yours was probably the one I listened to the most, because it was very creative and very funny. In fact, I came close to voting for it because of that. Yours was in the top 3 or 4 for me, and it was a tough choice. Sure, in some ways it was not as polished as some others, but hey, this is a hoedown! It was certainly one of the most creative! One of my favorites, Gary!

[schneb]

Maybe we can say "Great Gaming Music"

Have you ever heard the score in "Call of Duty 2"? Very cinematic. (Half joking, it is an incredible score, but wanted to dig in the genre again)