Vote for Orchestration Challenge 15!

[SeanHannifin]

That's - Music. Music evokes emotional responses and conjurs pictures in our minds. It doesn't have to be tied to actual, literal visuals.

Most of the music ever written was composed before there were movies. Beethoven and Wagner, to pick out two Biggies, wrote highly evocative music before there were movies--it wouldn't be very appropriate to call their music "Cinematic," even though of course their pieces have been used effectively in film.

Oh, I'd say many classical composers' music could be very appropriately called "cinematic" ... in fact, I've done it before! Again, I use the word as a description of my emotional reaction, when music reminds me of the strong emotions I feel when watching a film with a score I emotionally react to. You're right, music doesn't have to be tied to such literal visuals... when it doesn't, it's not cinematic, by my use of the word. That doesn't mean I won't like the music or won't think it's good, I will just have a different emotional response to it.

Again, just like when people say "that was great music!", they're saying little about what kind of music it was, and is meaningless if that's the sort of meaning you're trying to get out of the statement. But it's a statement of opinion, of subjective emotional reaction.

To me, insisting that good music which we have an emotional resonse to has to be filtered through our love of movies - it's an odd way to experience music which can Always be enjoyed on its own, without visuals.

I don't want to speak for schneb, but I don't think he was insisting anything like that. Personally, there's a lot of music I don't hear as cinematic, yet love... like Mozart's. In a challenge like this, in which there's so much "good music", "cinematic-ness" as a "filter" is just as arbitrary a decision as anybody who voted in this poll who liked 2 or more pieces somewhat equally would have to make.

Maybe we can say "Great Gaming Music" - and reduce music to yet another pop culture category.

We could and people do, but I don't think such a description is any form of "musical reduction". Again, I think it would just be an emotional response, not an attempt to judge the worth of all music by that one criteria.

GUYS---I thank you for the fun diversion this morning. I've been chewing on an especially tricky staging challenge on my show, diverting myself with this good conversation.

Thank you, fun discussion!

EDIT: P.S. Have you ever finished watching a movie and said "gee, that wasn't very cinematic"? (Just like John Cage wasn't always very musical...)

[SeanHannifin]

I guess I don't like categories, even though they're handy points of reference, but they're such limiting, reductionist phrases that we're not really communicating when we use them. Someone could very well say "Randy, that was a very cinematic piece you wrote" and they'll mean it as praise, and I'll get That part --but I'll have no idea what they're really saying. Cinematic, as in what they used to play in silent film houses?--as in the big grand scores of 1930's adventure movies?--sophisticated symphonic jazz as in 1950's films?--whaaaaaat? I guess they'll mean that they think it would be nice as a film score---and my reply is, what Wouldn't make a nice film score?--Theoretically, ANy kind of music could work in a movie.

But one could have a similar response when a listener says "I loved this piece of yourse!" ... one could respond "what exactly did you love? The orchestration, the melodies, the length, etc? There is so much you could have loved! Your statement of love is meaningless! Any kind of music is lovable!" One could always ask for more details about the listeners emotional response, but there's only so much we can explain about our own strange and unexplainable emotions, and who cares that much when a listener's complimenting you?

Ah, and yes, the voting is over...

Congratulations to the winner of Challenge #15, entry #7!!

[sanyarem]

Woo! Now who is it?!

[rbowser-]

UNCLE!
I CRY UNCLE!

I get it about Cinematic now-I do I do I dooooo--I think of the term too literally, and when on the rare occassion when it passes my lips, I mean pretty much the same vague "sweeping" music described here. SO - UNCLE!

AND UNCLE to the arranger of the lovely New Age entry, #7. Very nice work!

I arranged Ken's semi-quirky 3/4, 4/4 etc. fanfare in a >gasp!< ----

CINEMATIC
way, as for a western movie - entry #1.

Congrats to all for a fine bunch of arrangements---and--uuuUUUuncle!

Randy B.

[englishgent]

HA! I knew #1 had to be Randy's. I finally guessed one correctly. Although I'm sure that #10 has to be KEPeace?

OK, I'll own up to being the Windham Hillish submitter of #7. Although I had never heard of him (her?!) until this thread.

Well, I have to say I am completely in agreement with Randy over this one. As pleased as I was to have so many votes, I'm really not sure that I deserved them. I wasn't going to enter the challenge since I was getting no inspiration at all. Until right before the extended deadline, it suddenly occurred to me what a beautiful melody it was when played more slowly. So I cobbled together an arrangement in a spare evening, really just to present the tune in that way. I submitted it knowing that it was a far from stellar arrangement technically, not expecting to win at all. I was just happy to share what I had done, presenting it for what it was, hoping maybe some folks would enjoy it, and was going to be very happy if I got one or two votes.

I would say that all the other 9 arrangements have more going for them from an orchestration point of view. My favorite was #2 - even though I'm a sucker for a nice brass arrangement, I thought the writing was very fine in the faster sections.

Thanks to everyone for taking the trouble to listen to all 25 minutes or so of music - some several times - and offering your opinion.

Owen

[Leaf]

Oh nooooo, i missed the voting, i haven't been around much lately busy looking for a job.

Congrats to Owen, your entry is GREAT!

I just listened to half of them plus number 7, i like all of them so far and will listen to the rest tomorrow.

I spent my whole life not really liking country music, but now just recently i do sometimes and i think whoever did the banjo work did a bangup job. I loved it and i think if it had been posted at a country music oriented site, it would have received plenty of votes It sounded great and the string work gave it a nice facet i haven't heard much in CM.

David


edit: I just read your post Gary, i think it is well worth polishing, it isn't as bad as you said. i wasn't just saying that, i really enjoyed it.

[rbowser-]

Hearty Congratulations, Owen!

That's fun, that you guessed me as doing #1--Guess that proves you've listened to me enough to recognize some of my signature sounds, whatever those may be--I'm flattered!

BUT HEY--I feel like you may have misinterpreted me--I haven't meant to ever say that your #7 didn't deserve the votes. I was just surprised there was one such clear favorite, since all of these really were well done arrangements of the theme. I would have thought the votes would have been more spread out. I guess you're just saying that you too are surprised.

But you clearly struck a chord--no pun intended - in the listeners. It's a beautiful recording of a very nicely orchestrated piece, and it's a neat, pleasant surprise in its approach to the theme.

No no, my friend, I think it's great that you're the Challenge winner. Your work on this is superlative--And I appreciate you recounting the story of how you came up with it. You were inspired!

I am curious - There was a vague reference to this before, and Ken "Rusty Crook" and I exchanged some emails about this months ago --Did anyone else besides me find the time signature to be more complex than the way it was posted?

It's been awhile, and I can't quite remember the details now of what I discovered--but the original theme was notated as 2/4 all the way through. But for the beats to fall correctly, I found it to be in several shifting time signatures.

My first task in arranging it into an orchestration was to make a few decisions which very slightly altered some note durations. I know I ended up with some 3/4, some 4/4, and maybe a 5/4.

It seemed like it was in free time with the 2/4 grid not quite matching, that's what I'm saying. I think Ken is happy with it being in 2/4--right, Ken?--but I can't understand the pulse of the theme in that sig.

Is it just me? Did anyone else do some adjustments, some re-notating in order to work with the theme? It's just a musical theory kind of thing I would find interesting to hear feedback on.

YAAAH OWEN--Excellent job! And a tip of the hat in thanks to Ken for coming up with the theme, to Sean for hosting the Challenge, and to Gary for hosting us all day in and day out.

Randy B.

[sunbird]

From the very first time I heard all entries there was no doubt in my mind that no. 7 would take it all!!!
I think its simplicity and clearness is what is so captivating to the ear.
It has also delicacy yet with a clear saying, very romantic and lovely build up, everything just sounding right at the right place.
I really admire your talent which seems to come so naturally to you.

And you never gave a chance for the rest of us…….

Another entry that for me stood out from the rest was no. 3 (yes, yours, Gary!)!!
It was so full of humor and very lively and it should have gotten voted for!
But since each had only one vote the results couldn’t show who liked which as well…

I enjoyed hearing all entries!!!
Each is composed with talent and has something special, and each is a winner!!!
Many thanks to you all!!!

For the sake of all entries getting a fair chance in the next challenges, I really think that each voter ought to get the option to vote for 3 different entries.

And now it’s time to reveal my entry:



Ken, you gave us all a fine melody which could be easily adapted to many styles, as you can hear by the results.
I enjoyed very much working with it!
I just did a few changes and almost all the ideas came to me on the first day.
The middle section (for the second part of the melody) gave me some problems at first, so I put it aside for some time, and then one day my inspiration returned and I had the solution.

I am quite pleased with my composition, especially since it was my first time entry.
Thanks to those who voted for me, and I hope that you all enjoyed hearing it.

Yudit

[germancomponist]

Congratulations, Owen!

I have listend to all entries and must say that there are interesting and good pieces. It was not easy to vote to only one piece, because only the composer had the film scene in his had. So we all listeners had to built our own film scene into our heads to any piece.... .

Thanks to all who have composed to this challenge!

Owen, your piece has many feelings included, a good score for example to a sadly lovestory or something like this. I like it!

Best,

Gunther

[sanyarem]

Randy- I had the same issue with time signature. I felt it for the most part worked in 2/4, but I wanted to try something different. I found (with just minor changes in the base melody) that it fit pretty well into 6/8 time. As you would probably notice in my entry, #4. Though it sounds completely different, I believe I used every note in the order that was given in the original 2/4 time, some were just given longer durations than what was originally given. Besides that, I've been going on a ?/8 benge, so it was inevitable! Thanks Ken for the great time and congrats to Owen!