anyone put me on to a good sample Jazz guitar cd...Single notes..whatabout an L5 .id like something approaching the Wes Montgomery sound..course he played without a pick,used his thumb..best sound ever in my humble opinion...anything around resembling this sound ..any jazz afficianados let me know......thanks......
\"Vintage Jazz Guitars and Tenor Banjos\" from Bardstown Audio.
There are electric and acoustic multiple layer electric and acoustic Gibson L7 jazz guitars, with both pick and thumb sampled versions. Each and every note on this collection has been sample recorded without the use of any pitch-shifting, as with all instruments produced by Bardstown Audio. There are also release trigger samples on all of these beautiful instruments as well, which are vitally important in order to produce the true character of sound of these beautiful instruments. The electric version of the Gibson L7 is the same acoustic L7 with a floating DeArmond pickup, which is the ultimate electric jazz guitar sound, considering the top of the guitar has not been butchered in order to install pickups. Many of the real jazz guitar pros use this method of electric jazz guitar amplification because of the more resonate and raw sound of the guitar with the complete un-butchered spruce top being able to resonate.
You can check out MP3 demos of this guitar, which feature electric, acoustic, pick, and thumb versions on the MP3 page at www.bardstownaudio.com
I assure you that no other sampled jazz guitars on the market come anywhere close in quality and authenticity of realism as the \"Vintage Jazz Guitars and Tenor Banjos.\" I produced this much needed jazz guitar instrument library because no other sampled jazz guitars on the market come anywhere close in producing the necessary quality that is much needed. While you are on my web site, read the \"user comments\" as well, which pertain to these beautiful sampled guitars.
I personally have the Hans Zimmer Guitars Volumes 1 & 2, and I can assure you that the sampled jazz guitars produced by Bardstown Audio are much more authentic and realistic.
I have to start by saying I don\'t own the product, so this is NOT authoritative, but the reason I don\'t own it is that I have listened to all the demos, and don\'t hear the tone and sustain I need for smooth jazz/contemporary jazz/pop guitar. This is purely opinion, but it\'s based on years of being considered a pretty good fake-guitar-on-keyboards player.
FWIW, I would not feel obliged to write this if current licensing allowed refunds or resale. (NOT A FLAME ABOUT LICENSING, PLEASE, JUST A FACT OF LIFE. I understand the issues involved, but this is one of the side-effects.) All we have to go by are the demos provided by the developers, and if I don\'t hear what I am looking for, I have to assume the library won\'t do what I need it to, no matter how high the quality.
And every time the topic comes up, I\'ve had to bite my tongue (fingers?) because I\'ve wanted to say this. But time has passed, and I still haven\'t heard a believable contemporary jazz or smooth-jazz guitar, so I\'m posting this.
I have been looking for a contemporary jazz guitar since I bought GS, and so far, have not heard one that works for me.
I\'m sorry, but I can\'t agree with Franky and Kip about the Bardstown guitar (I wish I could, because from what I\'ve heard in the demos, it is a technically excellent library. Kip, I\'m not trying to slam your product, and I hate the thought of costing a developer a sale, but please read the rest of this post. If you can show me I\'m wrong I will be extremely happy, apolgize profusely and publicly and put my money where my mouth is!)
Bardstown\'s Guitars (BG) is a VINTAGE library, and as such, does a wonderful job of producing Djanjo and Charlie Christian-type solos and comps. The demos I\'ve heard show a warm, woody, sweet guitar character that fits this style (hot jazz, 30\'s-era jazz) perfectly.
But time has marched on, and jazz of the thirties does NOT sound like jazz or smooth jazz of the 80s on up. Larry Carlton is my reference point for contemporary jazz guitar. Also George Benson, who emulates Wes with the octave technique, sometimes, but also plays single line solos, and the timbre and intonation of those guitars is radically different than the archtop-with-DeArmond sound. The Carlton sound played in octaves gives a good Wes effect (and by the way, sampling the octave style doesn\'t work, I\'ve tried something like this several times. The time between notes (strings) has to adjust to tempo and phrasing, something a sample cannot do. You\'ve got to play the octave yourself.)
Contemporary jazz guitar has a more compressed sound, with longer sustain and warmer tone than anything I\'ve heard from demos of the BG library.
Kip, if you can create a good Larry Carlton type demo and prove me wrong, please do so. I don\'t like to feel like the bad guy, and really don\'t want to interfere with your sales. You do excellent work. This is strictly an issue of taste, not quality. But an archtop with DeArmond will never sound like an ES-335 thru a Dumble Super Overdrive amp.
I have downloaded all of your demos, and listened closely, to see if there were some way I could engineer the tonality I need into the samples. But I don\'t hear the length of sustain, or the basic roundness that I associate with the Carlton tone.
Part of this may be stylistic on the part of the demo performers. The demos have a \'standards-oriented\' sensibility that differs from the contemporary, electric/electronic melodic approach. If you have some smooth-jazz young lions at your disposal, perhaps ask one of them to do a demo.
But contemporary jazz guitar samples have to sustain for 5 seconds or longer. A real guitar can use feedback or compression for extra sustain, but we can\'t hold GS up to the amp to make it sustain longer.
Kip, if you feel I\'m unfairly characterizing your library, I apologize. I have no intention of attacking you, or your credibility, or that of your products. I have nothing but respect for you personally, and for the work you do, based on what I\'ve heard and read on this forum. I am being as objective as I know how, and as I said, would love to be wrong (I really need a good contemporary electric jazz guitar for smooth jazz production.)
As I said at the beginning, this is about individual taste, and artistic choice, not product quality. You\'re welcome to email me privately if you wish, or respond on the list, or just ignore the whole thing. I don\'t need to dialogue about this, but I\'m willing to, if you\'d like, either on the forum or privately.
And if you want to add a contemporary ES-335 library to your collection, I\'d be happy to beta!
I dunno Dasher...
I am basing my opinions on actually playing with the library, not only on demoes... also nowhere does Kip claim that his library is anything else than it is, VINTAGE archtop guitars.
You say you can\'t agree with me and Kip, can you point me to another library that does vintage archtops better than this one ?
Maybe it doesn\'t do Modern jazz like you want it too, but this library gives EXACTLY what it says it does, Vintage Archtops and Tenor Banjoes, and i can tell you the tones that have been captured in this library are flawless, and of course it all comes down to personal tastes, to say you don\'t like the library is fine but it does do what it claims and that is deliver high quality VINTAGE Archtops guitars and tenor banjoes.
Also i\'m not an expert but didn\'t the guy ask for a Wes Montgomery sounding jazz guitar ?
Correct me if i\'m wrong but Wes montgomery played in the 40\'s up to the 60\'s right ?
So wouldn\'t Kip\'s library be EXACTLY what the guy is looking for ?
I might also add that Wes Montgomery did not play an ES-335, which is a semi-hollow body thin-line guitar. Wes Montgomery played a Gibson L5, which has the exact same specs as a Gibson L7, which is the guitar that is featured on the \"Vintage Jazz Guitars and Tenor Banjos\" Collection... The L7 has the same body, dimensions, bracing, spruce top and maple sides and back, and same scale length and neck as the L5. The only difference between a L7 and a L5 is the inlay on the headstock and fingerboard.
Furthermore, Wes Montgomery did not play through over-driven amps. In his day, he played through warm and undistorted sounding tube amps. Also, you cannot compare Larry Carlton\'s sound to the sound of Wes Montgomery.
Furthermore, there are many contemporary jazz guitar musicians who are playing Gibson L7\'s, L5\'s, and Super 400\'s. These archtop guitars are still very much in production by the Gibson Guitar Company, and many jazz guitar musicians consider these guitars to be the \"holy grail\" of jazz guitars.
Franky, you are repeating exactly what I am saying. This is a VINTAGE guitar library. There is none better that I have heard. I agree with that statement entirely.
But my comments are due to Kip\'s assertions that this is the best CONTEMPORARY jazz guitar. That\'s where I have a problem. You own the disks, so you have a more authoritative position regarding what it can and can\'t do. I don\'t own it, and have no way to determine if it truly can suit my needs EXCEPT listening to the demos. So my comments are relative to the demos. That\'s all they can and will be until either a) someone I know purchases the library and lets me come over and play around, or b) someone puts up a demo with that library that shows me it is possible to achieve the tonality I\'m seeking, or c) someone firds a logical way out of the licensing impasse we\'re currently in.
I own a few libraries now that I bought because I believed the claims, or liked the demos, only to find that while they are well-produced, they are not suitable for my uses, which include live performance. I won\'t do that again if I can avoid it.
To both Kip and Franky - just because something is extremely well done, does NOT mean it is the answer to all styles of music.
And to Kip-I\'m afraid you\'re taking my comments more harshly than I intend.
True that Wes did not play the 335. I was referring to Carlton, and his specific rig.
My former guitarist, Bill Courtial, also played an L5 and later an L7, but he had the same Carltonesque sustained sound that I am looking for. The sound and \'attitude\' of an instrument depends greatly on who plays it, as well as the entire chain of sound from the hands of the guitarist to the bits on the CD.
My point is NOT to disparage your library-I thought I made that clear. I think you have a great-sounding guitar, for that genre and era of instrument.
What I am saying is that the demos you have provided do not sound like what I consider to be the current warm, fat contemporary sound, which is nore reminiscent of Carlton than Django. If your guitars are capable of producing this Carltonesque ambience, please show us. I will apologize and spend money. If you can\'t do this, then understand what I\'m saying. All I have to go by is what you let us hear. Words are meaningless, only the end result has validity (and some of that is, of course, MY responsibility, to bring that character out of the samples. Acknowledged. But no matter the quality of the Kobe beef, you can\'t make a lamb stew out of it.
There are many schools of guitar tone, from Django to Jim Hall to Charlie Hunter, and all this without talking about the whole rock/metal side. No one correlated library set (where the samples are of a genre) can reproduce the entire spectrum of electric guitar tonality.
You say there are many jazz guitarists who consider the sound you get as the Holy Grail. No doubt, no question. But these are not the guitarists I\'m trying to get MY guitar sound to sound like. And when I play your demos to other musicians in this area who play the kinds of music we do, I get a similar reaction-it\'s not just me.
There is no standard identifiable vocabulary to adequately and accurately discuss timbre. The words don\'t exist-they don\'t have to, you just listen. You can use phrases like bright, warm, fat, smooth, clean, thin, etc. but 5 seconds of listening quantifies it exactly. When I try to explain to you why the timbre does not work for me, I have apparently hit a hot button. Sorry about that. It\'s not meant to be a negative, it\'s meant as an explanation.
What I\'m being critical of, if that\'s what it is, is that you feel that your product has the only true jazz guitar tone. And I don\'t agree. I don\'t want my jazz guitar to sound like Segovia, or Hendrix, or Django, or Freddie Greene, or Steve Vai. These are all perfectly valid examples of unique \'guitar\' timbres and tonalities, but do not address my needs.
The demos you have published have a sound which is reminiscent, to me, of an earlier age of electric guitar. This is not a put-down, or an insult-at least it\'s not meant to be. It\'s simply a recognition of the fact that jazz has a very broad definition, and a wide scope of timbres.
I want a smooth jazz, Carlton tone. That\'s all I\'m saying.
Sorry if that upsets you, but if I don\'t ask for what I want, I know for a fact I will never get it. I also know that if I buy the product, and it doesn\'t satisfy my needs, I\'m stuck. I can\'t send it back, can\'t even resell it.
But worse, I\'ll be tempted to \'make it fit\' where it really doesn\'t, just because I HAVE it and don\'t want to spend more money on another library that duplicates what I already, in theory, own. And then the quality of my music is degraded, because my personal vision is not fulfilled. And then I lose sales, and credibility.
So please understand, this is as important to us as buyers as it is to you as developers. (Otherwise why would there be so MANY GS pianos out there? Including yours...)
Peace, guys. No insult or slam intended. Try to see that.
I never claimed that my \"Vintage Jazz Guitars\" are suitable for modern jazz fusion straight out of the box, though with some amp simulation effects such as \"Revalver, Amp Farm, chorus effects, etc., they very well could be.
Bruce Richardson stated that these \"Vintage Jazz Guitars\" are very well suited for many different sounds and styles, considering these sampled guitars are excellent original source material that can be used for further effects processing by the end user in order to achieve some astonishing results.
Out of the box and without any further effects processing, these guitars are certainly very well suited for Wes Montgomery music styles.
I think the tone on Kip\'s vintage Guitars CD is phenomanol...or however oyu speeel it
Demo\'s at the Bardstown site dont do any of his libraries justice in waht they really could do IMO. In fact I was not impressed with any of them for a long time. when I go tthe libraries I started to dislike the demos even more.
However I do hear more of a vintage sound when I play them, still the tone of the library itself drives a bunch of inspiration.
not being a contemp jazz listener I wouldn\'t be able to tell you if they fit or not.