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Topic: Bagpipe experts- I need your help please

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  1. #1

    Bagpipe experts- I need your help please

    Many of you heard my "March to the Highlands" mp3 last year. I was going to have real bagpipes performers on the song, but as usual I am having problems with the musicians in Las Vegas. Just a few days before we are set to record I was told by the bagpipe ensemble leader that they cannot play my song in it's current tune because apparently there are some problems with the drone in the right tune, etc. I'm a little upset because 2 months ago everything was fine when he brought his bagpipe over to my place and performed for me. I even had to re-pitch my song to accommodate the pipes.

    I'm not sure I want to deal with this just 3 days before we are supposed to record, not to mention i have a children's choir on the song that has already practiced to a certain pitch and are ready to record the following week. Oy vey!

    I own Bela D Media's Anthology and am thinking of just layering maybe 4 bagpipes on one another and experimenting with the different attack articulations to make them sound more authentic. I have some questions that I want to ask and I am not 100% confident I will get the correct answer here in Las Vegas. What I want to know is if the drone used on Anthology is truly authentic to most bagpipes. The drone is an A#. The big question is- Do Anthology's bagpipes sound authentic enough (if used correctly of course) to fool the listener to believe they are listening to the real deal? They sound pretty darn good to me, but I am certainly not well versed in bagpipes.

    Any thoughts or advice welcome.

    Thanks!
    _______________________________________
    "I would rather compose than decompose."


    Sean C. Dockery
    www.SeanDockery.com




    Cubase 5, Komplete 6, Alchemy, PLAY, Vienna Instruments, Spectrasonics, and much more

    INTEL|CORE I7 980X 3.33G, 12G CORSAIR DDR3, SSD 160G|OCZ for OS.






  2. #2

    Re: Bagpipe experts- I need your help please

    Hi Sean,

    First and foremost, thank you for choosing Bela D Media. If you wish to make an ensemble with Anthology Celtic Wind, convert the Bagpipe session to an audio track then, create additional 10-15 audio tracks with the same file. Detune all them by small increments up and down. Move each to cause slight delay/offset per.

    I have used this technique and can be heard via the posted mp3. I shared the demo with the player who recorded the pipe for Anthology…. He is the director of one of the best pipe bands in the world…. He was fooled! The trick is choosing good ornamentations.


    http://www.eduardotarilonte.com/bela...tobrittany.mp3

    You can hear the ensemble from the second half of the tune

    Thank you
    Eduardo Tarilonte |Sample Library Developer
    SampleLibraries |MyWeb

  3. #3

    Re: Bagpipe experts- I need your help please

    You're welcome. That demo was freaking cool! Sounded pretty realistic to me. Within the next couple hours I will post my new version of "March from the Highlands" with 4 bagpipes, 2 from Anthology and 2 from other libs I have. I thought combining different libs may add some texture....I don't know, but I'm hoping someone will let me know what they think after I post it. Great idea with the multiple tracks and detuning, though. Thanks!
    _______________________________________
    "I would rather compose than decompose."


    Sean C. Dockery
    www.SeanDockery.com




    Cubase 5, Komplete 6, Alchemy, PLAY, Vienna Instruments, Spectrasonics, and much more

    INTEL|CORE I7 980X 3.33G, 12G CORSAIR DDR3, SSD 160G|OCZ for OS.






  4. #4

    Re: Bagpipe experts- I need your help please

    With all due respect to Tari... I think the warpipes demo is the weakest of the batch and I would not use his technique. But that said, I own and LOVE both of his libs. They are THE BOMB.

    If you want a realistic pipe band sound, actually record 10 separate performances, then de-tune each of THOSE. It's the timing issues between players that provides the realism. Pipers simply cannot play unisono as cleanly as orchestral instruments.

  5. #5

    Re: Bagpipe experts- I need your help please

    Ok, here is my latest version of the song (I still have a children's choir to record for the song). I used 4 bagpipe samples- 2 Anthology pipes and 2 EWQL RA pipes. Any opinions appreciated. It sounds pretty decent to me, but am still wondering if I need more pipes. Opinions PLEASE!

    EDIT: This is the newest 2-21-2008 version up 1/2 step and with (hopefully) better performed bagpipes this time.

    http://www.seandockery.com/song-prev...02-21-2008.mp3
    _______________________________________
    "I would rather compose than decompose."


    Sean C. Dockery
    www.SeanDockery.com




    Cubase 5, Komplete 6, Alchemy, PLAY, Vienna Instruments, Spectrasonics, and much more

    INTEL|CORE I7 980X 3.33G, 12G CORSAIR DDR3, SSD 160G|OCZ for OS.






  6. #6

    Re: Bagpipe experts- I need your help please

    They sound pretty good, i think. (The entrance of bagpipes sounded a little loud to me though.) Just wondering a little about the long held notes, i haven't listened to much bagpipe music, but some sounded very straight ( maybe a little too straight on some notes, like maybe real players get tired quicker so don't always sutain every note so evenly, etc.) But in general, very nice piece, btw, and i especially like how it moves up a notch toward the end with the children's choir complementing the pipes, and nice drums. Very mood-setting, chilled and intense at same time, and the repetitive nature of it works well with the drums and pads underneath.
    Sam

  7. #7

    Re: Bagpipe experts- I need your help please

    Sammy24, thanks for the nice compliments and your observations. I will take your suggestions into consideration when I start doing more work on it tomorrow.
    _______________________________________
    "I would rather compose than decompose."


    Sean C. Dockery
    www.SeanDockery.com




    Cubase 5, Komplete 6, Alchemy, PLAY, Vienna Instruments, Spectrasonics, and much more

    INTEL|CORE I7 980X 3.33G, 12G CORSAIR DDR3, SSD 160G|OCZ for OS.






  8. #8

    Re: Bagpipe experts- I need your help please

    Quantum,

    I have worked with bagpipes quite alot and the way they are notated is not the way they sound. The written 'A' actually sounds closer to a 'Bb'. Also players add ornaments to the melody, especially when a repeated note is played because they can't re-articulate. For a more authentic sound I would add ornaments and increase the volume of the drone.

    Keys that work (concert) are Bb, Eb & Ab as you will run out of playable notes in other keys. The scale is a mixolydian written 'A' in the stave to 'A' one ledger line above, however the pipes can also play the leading note G (in the stave) as well.

    I have a small guide but can't post attachments.

    Check out the sheet music on www.pipie.com for examples of ornaments.

    Justin
    Last edited by Justin Matthews; 02-21-2008 at 03:07 PM. Reason: addition

  9. #9

    Re: Bagpipe experts- I need your help please

    OK, I've pitch up 1/2 step now and edited the pipes some so that the beginnings and ends are a bit more staggered like real performers. I also detuned the samples a bit. I'm getting closer. Please see my edited link from yesterday to hear it.

    jjloving- thanks for the good words.

    Justin- thanks for the link and info.
    _______________________________________
    "I would rather compose than decompose."


    Sean C. Dockery
    www.SeanDockery.com




    Cubase 5, Komplete 6, Alchemy, PLAY, Vienna Instruments, Spectrasonics, and much more

    INTEL|CORE I7 980X 3.33G, 12G CORSAIR DDR3, SSD 160G|OCZ for OS.






  10. #10

    Re: Bagpipe experts- I need your help please

    Quantum,

    I think you have got the detune, drone and note start a lot better.

    You have a high leading note (sounding A) in your melody - bagpipes cannot play this note. It is the Ab or flattened leading note which gives bagpipe music its distinct modal/folk flavour. For realism I would get rid of this A natural. Chord V (5) or F with a minor 3rd (F min) is a more suitable chord and includes the Ab.

    To make it sound even better I would still add a lot more grace notes (or spaghetti) to the melody.

    Justin

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