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Topic: If you could make any sample collection

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  1. #11
    Senior Member
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    Re: If you could make any sample collection

    I have a passion for the unusual and weird instruments from around the world.

    I love what Tari and Bela D have done with Spiritual Winds.

    But the Didgeridoo for instance is recorded only in one key. B.

    I only know of one sample library that has the didgeridoo in every key and it does not have the playability of Spiritual Winds.

    Other instruments that are rising in popularity at the moment is the Hang again as far as I know only one company has sampled this instrument so far...

    http://www.hang-music.com/hang.php


    So those are my choice..

    Simon
    www.sounds-and-images.co.uk

    And now also at Flickr!

    http://flickr.com/photos/sounds-and-images/

    www.myspace.com/simonfielder

    NorthernSounds.NET.
    View Simon Fielder's Profile at NorthernSounds.net

  2. #12

    Re: If you could make any sample collection

    Very cool/solid ideas guys! anyone else?

  3. #13

    Re: If you could make any sample collection

    Quote Originally Posted by dpasdernick View Post
    It's frightening that I started to think about spending the million on samples instead of using the cash to retire to a lovely home in Palm Springs (where I might get a shoebox for a million but hey it's Palm Springs)

    I am a sample whore...

    D
    Now's your chance. The prices here in Palm Springs have been going down steadily in the past 6 months. There are foreclosures on every block, and near-foreclosures next to them. (That's why I am renting.)

    David

  4. #14

    Re: If you could make any sample collection

    I'll second ejr's suggestions about creating a library to really cover what goes on in a contemporary Broadway pit.

    My personal fantasy library is to recreate a classic un-miced, open Broadway pit from the 1950s. Sample the solo instruments with all that classic Broadway expression and vibrato, the medium sized string sections, unison brass, percussion and everything else in place in the pit, recreating the stereo soundfield heard from center orchestra seats about six rows back in a big old fashioned Broadway house.

  5. #15

    Re: If you could make any sample collection

    I really love world instruments... especially winds.

    So if I had the money, I would record a rare + world instruments library with the scale of rare + world instruments listed in the Audio Impressions pdf (which is no longer available),

    But with the depth (larger size and greater articulations), sound quality and scripting calibre of BelaDs wind libraries, rather than the ethnic libraries that are currently available.

    That would make me very happy.

  6. #16

    Re: If you could make any sample collection

    Actually, I think what I was getting at is that Broadway today has to create that same sound with fewer instruments -- and much more varied sound -- some, but not all of it, a little more contemporary (electric guitars, keyboards and drums) -- all of it amplified, whether it needs to be or not. Since this is such a difficult environment to write for, it would be nice to have a sample collection that addresses these realities.

    For the classic Bway sound -- which was very similar to the Big Band sound -- Broadway and Big Band and Garritan Jazz & Big Band will get you there to some extent. Each has its limitations. As others have noted, the price of the former is really out of line with the rest of the sample/virtual instrument market. Also, it is extremely limited in the number of instruments it includes. And, the deal breaker for me at any price, is its use of a dongel.

    JABB is much more reasonably priced, but it also needs to be heavily suplimented from another library, such as GPO (for strings, double reeds, etc.) The JABB brass doesn't sound as realistic to me (especially the saxes, which I find unusable in all but a few situations.) What I like best is having a lot of trumpets and trombones to choose from, each with a variety of mutes.

    I think sample modeling is a better way to go with brass instruments (including saxes). That seems to be what makes brass VIs sound most realistic. But the current offerings don't quite meet my needs. It appears that the only way to get the new sample modeling trumpet is to order out of the country, online, which I won't do. And, if you buy one, what are you supposed to do -- wait a couple of years for them to release the rest of the brass instruments? I went down that road with vocal libraries and I am still waiting for the release of usable solo tenor and bass voices.

    Arturia has a trumpet/sax/trombone virtual instrument that sounds like it is using some type of sample modeling ... but it relies on a dongel for copy protection. (I've had too many systems brought to their knees by wacky USB copy protection schemes to ever be suckered into that again.)

    I'm glad that some developers, at least, are reading these forums and starting to address some of these concerns. I just wish they'd get some of this stuff to the market sooner.

  7. #17
    Member
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    Dec 2010
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    Re: If you could make any sample collection

    Quote Originally Posted by ejr View Post
    Two ideas -- they're not new, but I don't see them implimented enough.

    (1) Modular releases. That idea is good: buy just what you need and save money. But too few developers are doing it. And, with some of them, if you end up buying a whole woodwind or strings section with the various modules, it ends up costing more than a complete collection. You might do better with GPO and JABB. So, I' guess what I'm saying is I'd like to see some of the less expensive libaries offer their insturuments ala carte.

    (2) Broadway pit orchestra. There's only one release that seems to target Broadway. It's expensive and it only has the most basic instruments that you'd expect to find in a Broadway pit these days.

    With the musician's union minimum for the largest Broadway theater down to 18 players (19 if the conductor plays one or more instruments) it's become more of a challenge than ever to orchestrate a score and make it sound full.

    What do Broadway theater composers and orchestrators need today?

    Solo strings only, from which a small section can be built (because there is never enough money for a full string section) a la GPO, DD Solo strings, etc. And keyboard patches that can serve as a substitute for a strings section (blending seamlessly as you go down the keyboard, so that every instrument groups is playing in its best range). There is some of this now, but it could be so much better. For example, if I play a 3 note chord on the treble staff, it should play the upper two voices on the violins and the third voice on the violas, etc. All right, I want the impossible. I want the audience to think it's a real string section -- but anything that gets me closer to that is a good thing. Also a good harp patch or two. I know this seems like a luxury for such a small orchestra, but they use them on Broadway a LOT. It's part of the sound today.

    Woodwinds, woodwinds, woodwinds. They're the most important section these days. WW players typically play 3, 4 or 5 instruments, so the orchestra can have lots of color and variety without being huge. Again, just solo instruments. There won't be many occassions when I'll want several of the same instrument playing in unison. But, like the strings, I'd want several variations of each, so that I have some choice and can put together a section on my own if need be. Ditto for the keyboard idea: a single patch that starts with an Eb clarinet on the high end of the keyboard, going through the Bb clarinet, down to the contrabass. Another for all the flutes. Another for the double reeds. You get the idea.

    Saxes, saxes, saxes. Not for every score, but they're used more than you'd think because they make a small orchestra sound big. Most existing sax libraries leave much to be desired. Some sound like kazoos. Others sound like an organ or FM synth when played together. Especially missing is a convincing subtone sound. (I'd never substitute a keyboard for the saxes though, so don't spend your time on that.)

    Brass: Trumpets and trombones are of primary importance -- with lots of varieties of mutes. Like in JABB, but more. How about harmons with the stems out? Felt hats? They use this stuff all the time in the pits. A Euphonium or baritone horn is also used a lot. Sometimes a tuba. And French Horns -- for the same reasons as the saxes -- they help make a small combo sound large. Again, just solo instruments, in several variations, so that ad hoc sections can be put together. (No need for brass sections or a keyboard substitute here, either.)

    Rhthym section. Acoustic and Electric bass, a must. Acoustic and electric guitars. The banjo and mandolin, and sometimes the uke are also used. And, finally, a piano that can actually fit in a pit (meaning an upright or baby grand). Don't waste your time on synths, electric pianos, organs, etc. There are so many of them on the market all ready, everybody I know has more than they need. Kontakt comes with some. So does Sonar. Take a look at your own collection. How many Rhodes pianos do you have? How many came bundled with something else? Including it in a Broadway collection will be overkill. And they're not used all that much in the theater.

    Drums & Percussion: A decent drum kit. Especially patches for SOFTER accompaniments (brushes, lots of low velocity levels). The drums are going nearly ALL the time, to keep the singers and dancers in tempo. But they can't overpower the more delicate textures -- and yet we want a lot of volume for the big finale, too. A Broadway percussionist can be called on to play virtually any type of percussion toy, and anything with a mallet (especially the timpani and xylophone), so there should be lots of this kind of thing, too. And how about a timpani that can do a glissando?

    Vocals. Soprano, alto, tenor and bass. In Broadway belt, ballad and contemporary styles. "La, La, La" is fine, as all we really need them for is to see how the accompaniment will sound with a voice when arranging (and later as a demo for real singers.) But, please, there are only two sexes -- don't leave the men out. There are so many damn libraries that are only ladies singing! Enough all ready. (And remember that not every man is a tenor.) Kids are okay, too. But sample boys AND girls.

    I know Broadway and Big Band used to be pretty much the same style. But not any more. Today's Broadway scores have more in common with a contemporary orchestra that you might use on a pop single. Maybe a bit smaller. A lot of variety from a small number of players. That's what we want. All the composers for the theater that I know are using computers now. But everyone is using a miss matched hodgepodge of different virtual libraries because there is nothing out there that really fills that niche. It's surprises me that all collections either seem to be trying to be these big classical orchestras or just replace a rock combo. At least Garritan is showing some imagination (especially with JABB and the Marching band libraries) recognizing that music is played in many other venus besides classical concert halls and rock bands.
    Good post. Garritan does have the right idea (but I am concerned about that ARIA player).

  8. #18

    Lightbulb Re: If you could make any sample collection

    Hello All,
    I'm a new member who stumbled upon
    the forums and decided to join.
    I was thinking of Digital Maisky, or Digital Horowitz,
    or possibly even Digital Perlman, Heifetz, Janis (Byron Janis), etc.
    Or 10 Disk: Digital Masters Collection.

    Thank you all for allowing me to post!

    wannabeinnovator

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