After reading Donnie\'s \"sampler developer ethos\" yesterday I think I can safety say I will not buy any of his products without first borrowing them from a friend. Call me a pirate, call me what you will, but if Donnie is going to insist on playing all of the instruments on his sample libraries I cannot justify spending the kind of money I did on LOP and end up with certain instrument articulations that are not useable.
Case in point. The Timp Cres and Roll articulations in LOP are not programmed or performed correctly:
1.) The performance of the Timp Cres articultion is much to slow. It sounds more like a measured 16th note tremelo at 105 bpm than a crescendo-ing trill or roll.
2.) When these incorrectly performed (and thus beyond help) articulations are pitched down (in some case 4 semi-tones), in an amatuerish attempt to save space, the result becomes even less usable.
It has become clear to me that the \"developer ethos\" that Donnie adheres to compromises his results and thus ends up hurting me (the paying customer). Next time he should consider hiring an Orchestral Percussionist for his Orchestral Percussion Sample Library and not take shortcuts that any critical listening of the Library would expose. Also on PITCHED, CHROMATIC PERCUSSION INSTRUMENTS he should consider adhering to his marketing information and sample them chromatically. This is especially important with rolls and cres. articulations so that the \"speed\" of the roll/cres roll does not vary.
Well - back to the AO percussion disk for timpanis. I cannot recommend the LOP library for Timpanis. I am not happy. I am sick and tired of spending money on half *** libraries.
[This message has been edited by Wacky (edited 04-07-2002).]
This is obviously a case of retaliation for Gary so I\'m not taking it very seriously but I will address it.
First of all we didn\'t sacrifice anything by Sean and I playing on the library. The Timpani in particular I played so I\'ll take the credit for them.
Let\'s see I play with the Memphis Symphony as well as other regional orchestras and I have three degrees in percussion. I also studied with a direct decent of Fred Hinger for 5 years so my timpani \"chops\" are not in question.
Secondly you are talking about maybe 8 megs of 2.5 gigabyte library so to say the whole library is worthless is a little absurb. The timpani in LOP are mean\'t to be a good assortment of timpani timbres and articulations. If you want the whole bag the Utltimate Timpani is what you want.
As a matter of fact I defy you to name me another library that is as realistic than LOP. You can\'t because there isn\'t. The bottom line is that anyone with that library can fool anyone into thinking that they are listening to the real thing and NO other library can do that with no processing.
[This message has been edited by donnie (edited 04-07-2002).]
\"Secondly you are talking about maybe 8 megs of 2.5 gigabyte library so to say the whole library is worthless is a little absurb.\"
Nowhere did I imply the whole library is worthless. My criticism is very specific and targetted at the Timpani articulations. Unforunately the Timpani is one of the most important instruments in the modern orchestral percussion section, if not the most important, so I am not nit-picking here. If there were some performance/programming issues on the anvil FX I could rightly ignore it, but the fact is this is a gaping hole in the library.
Again the roll and cresendo tremoli samples on the unity keys sound like 16th note measured tremelo at 105 bpm - not a \"roll\" or an unmeasured \"tremelo\" and the fact that these poorly performed samples are stretched over ridiculously wide ranges (5 semitones)make the unity sample on the \"D3\" key about 1/3 slower than the sample on the \"G3\" key.
If you think I am being unfair, I urge you to listen to them again. Then I urge you to listen to the timpani crescendos on the AO Disk. On the AO disk the crescendo tremolis are unmearsured tremolis - not slow tempo measured. And there are different lengths for the cres tremolis - Long, Medium and Short. This is all on ONE DISK.
If you refuse to chormatically sample the timpani rolls and tremoli the least you could have done is make sure you keep the range to 3 semitones - i.e. unity note in the middle, strech one semitone up, strech one semitone down. This way the speed of your rolls is only fluctuating by a negligible amount (1/12th faster or slower)and you could still cover the entire octave with 4 samples.
Although the sound of the timpanis is leaps and bounds above the AO timpanis, the programming and performance and articulation options falls incredilbly short of the mark set 5 years ago which had become industry standard.
To sell an \"Orchestral Percussion Disk\" and neglect to include usable Timpani articulations is bull****.
[This message has been edited by Wacky (edited 04-07-2002).]
\"Ok here is where we differ....the AO peformances are TERRIBLE...DID YOU HEAR ME TERRIBLE!!....if thats the sound your looking for then you can have it.\"
The \"sound\" I am looking for is unmeasured tremolo at an even speed across the octave. And I expected to have it after investing $400 on your library. Unfortunately I still don\'t.
Say what you will about the AO performances but they were consistant, they were unmeasured and Mr. Siedlaczek included crescendo tremolis of 3 different lengths. At least they were usable which is ten times more than I can say for the timpani rolls and cresendo rolls on LOP.
You have Donnie\'s response, I hope it is what you were looking for. I will respond differently and attempt to educate as in addition to my performance profession I also am a music educator by profession.
Timpani rolls, as with any percussion instrument will vary in speed with several factors coming into play. The pitch of the instrument, length of sustain of the head (or bar) and volume of the roll. Lower pitch, longer sustain and softer volumes are generally played by alternating strokes at a slower rate. The higher the pitch, shorter the sustain and louder the volume, the more quickly the strokes producing the roll will alternate. With a cresc. roll the speed of the roll will actually increase with the volume of the cresc. And, this is true with just about any percussion instrument, even snare drum \"buzz\" orchestral type, multiple bounce rolls.
Now, I did say \"generally played\" because this in indeed not always the case with lesser libraries that do not have professional players performing the sounds. Obviously, this is what you are used to hearing. If all string, brass or w.w. libraries were as poorly created as other percussion libraries, you would expect to hear out of tune, beginner instruments played by amatures and I guess would be dissapointed here too if that is not what you got.
Im going to post this wherever i see the whacky flames about LOP timpani. I have both the Ultimate Timpani Library AND LOP.
The LOP timpani are fine, especially for orchestral work. The two general .GIG files will give you everything you need and enough variety. The Hard patches are a matter of taste, which means some people, based on their compositional flavour will write with these. For me, LOP Timpani is helpful for most of my orchestral scoring work. If I am going to record, the Ultimate Timpani Library is extremely extensive and can be utilized to get every nuance etc. I\'ve played around with the Ultimate enough to know it will take me many days to understand the extensive power...it\'s BIG and extremely well recorded.
I dont have LOP yet, but I will buy it. Not for the timps though, although they are probably good. However, I always felt that the rolls and cresc/decresc was the weak point of Ultimate Timpani. Every hit seems too \'marked\' or something, so you dont quite get the fluid motion of a crescendo. Is this because there\'s too long between each hit? I never really thought much about it, I just know I had difficulties getting good results out of them. Sometimes I even tend to use the single hit patches to create crescendoes instead
[This message has been edited by Simon Ravn (edited 04-08-2002).]
Wacky, if you dislike Donnie\'s timps AND AO\'s timps so much, why don\'t you go record your own timps... you could even audition like 100 percussionists for the timp roll you\'re looking for This post seems funny... but when you think of it it\'s not a bad idea. You could just do the rolls and effects, and use LOP (or AO, for the sake of it) for the rest. In an orchestral setting, you could get away with using two timp sample sets for one instrument.
[This message has been edited by Maarten Spruijt (edited 04-08-2002).]