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Topic: "Here's That Rainy Day" Burke & Van Heusen GPO

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  1. #1
    Senior Member sosmus's Avatar
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    "Here's That Rainy Day" Burke & Van Heusen GPO

    http://www.box.net/shared/j9hqfey2ok
    "Here's That Rainy Day" Burke & Van Heusen GPO

    I am again asking for help . I did this score with Finale and GPO and a Notation score, nothing else. My questions:
    1. How do I get a real "fp" effect?
    2. How do I get repeated notes to be more legato?
    3. How do I get and control crescendos & decrescendos?

    I've tried the built-in expressions and they are not exact enough. I have Switch and Audacity but do not know how to use them. To quote my daughter, "I am a mess." Any help or suggestions will be appreciated.

    sos
    http://www.box.net/shared/1liasdpkog
    This is a revised version using mainly the suggestions from Jeff Turner. I added some "fp's", more legato and some hairpins that actually worked. Still lots of refining and resetting to do but at least I'm beginning to a light at the end of the tunnel.
    sos
    Last edited by sosmus; 03-03-2008 at 11:41 PM. Reason: revision

  2. #2

    Re: "Here's That Rainy Day" Burke & Van Heusen GPO

    To answer some of your questions, it would be nice to know which version of Finale you are using.

    I am not an expert at Finale (I use 2002 version for PC). There are 2 ways to answer that comes to mind for your questions.

    1) Use a sequencer and draw in the CC's to get the effects you want.

    2) Make your own expression markings (as I do in Finale 2002) to accomodate the CC's in Finale. i.e. "pedal down" assign CC# 64 a value of 127. and "pedal up" (also CC#64) a value of 0. CC#64 is for slurring in GPO. Crescendos and Decrescendos are done with CC#1 (the Modulation Wheel) and can be created as a shape expression.

    I know that finale 2008 has CC midi events that can be assigned to instruments, but I do not know how this is done since I don't have the new version of Finale.

    By the way, the arrangement is a very pretty one. The arrangement sounds vaguely familiar. Did you do the arrangement? It is very good and the orchestration you used renders it with a very pleasant sound! I enjoyed listening to your orchestration of this very lovely tune. Thanks!
    [Music is the Rhythm, Harmony and Breath of Life]
    "Music is music, and a note's a note" - Louis 'Satchmo' Armstrong

    Rich

  3. #3
    Senior Member sosmus's Avatar
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    Re: "Here's That Rainy Day" Burke & Van Heusen GPO

    RichR:
    No, it's all my arrangement that I originally wrote for a vocalist and recycled it as a vehicle to learn more about this process.
    I have Finale 2008a but I do not have, or even know how to use a sequencer.

    However, the rest of your suggestions look feasible and I will give them a try.
    Thanks for your help and comments.

    Steve

  4. #4

    Re: "Here's That Rainy Day" Burke & Van Heusen GPO

    Well, now that I know for sure it is your arrangement, just let me say that I think it is very well done. I like the texture of it. I also wish you luck at get the parts to sound just the way you would like them. Ther are many more users on this forum who use Finale 2008, maybe they can give you help in how the latest version handles midi events. My version makes me work at it. I only do enough to get it to an acceptable listen level while writing. I do all my later work in a sequencer.
    [Music is the Rhythm, Harmony and Breath of Life]
    "Music is music, and a note's a note" - Louis 'Satchmo' Armstrong

    Rich

  5. #5
    Senior Member sosmus's Avatar
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    Re: "Here's That Rainy Day" Burke & Van Heusen GPO

    Rich:
    Thanks for your insight. I'm not able to find where I can change or reset those CC levels in Finale. I'll keep plugging, as I gone this far, so I'm confident some help will show itself soon. I know how to write but as Danny Williams said, "the litany of minutia" is killing me.

    Steve

  6. #6
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    Re: "Here's That Rainy Day" Burke & Van Heusen GPO

    Quote Originally Posted by sosmus View Post
    http://www.box.net/shared/j9hqfey2ok
    "Here's That Rainy Day" Burke & Van Heusen GPO

    I am again asking for help . I did this score with Finale and GPO and a Notation score, nothing else. My questions:
    1. How do I get a real "fp" effect?
    2. How do I get repeated notes to be more legato?
    3. How do I get and control crescendos & decrescendos?

    I've tried the built-in expressions and they are not exact enough. I have Switch and Audacity but do not know how to use them. To quote my daughter, "I am a mess." Any help or suggestions will be appreciated.

    sos
    1. On a whole note for instance, notate it as an 8th tied to a double dotted half. place a f on the 8th and a p on the dotted half.(HP does play a fortepiano, but doing it this was you can control the effect more precisely)

    2. You can slur them in which HP turn on legato mode. Or you can add a tenuto expression to each note, with the note duration raised slightly.

    3. crescendos and decresendos are controlled with hairpins. Put beginning and ending dynamics with these hairpins. If the default expressions are not exact enough, edit them and add your own. Nothing's stopping you from doing that.

    And lastly, delve into Finale's midi tool if you want.

    Jeff

  7. #7
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    Re: "Here's That Rainy Day" Burke & Van Heusen GPO

    Quote Originally Posted by sosmus View Post
    Rich:
    Thanks for your insight. I'm not able to find where I can change or reset those CC levels in Finale. I'll keep plugging, as I gone this far, so I'm confident some help will show itself soon. I know how to write but as Danny Williams said, "the litany of minutia" is killing me.

    Steve
    Expression tool. Choose the "f' for example. Click the Playback tab. Under type it says "key velocity". Next to effect it'll say "set to value 88".

    Key velocity is the controller. You can click on the dropdown list next to it and see all of the choices. Choose Controller form the menu, on the right of your screen another dropdown menu will appear. 0 bank select is at the top. This is the list of CC controllers. Choose any one you want and select any value you want.

    Key velocity is the default choice for volume in most midi applications. Because Garritan instruments are different, HP converts key velocity and converts it to CC#1, Modulation automatically.

    Create your own custom expressions with their specific playback parameters to fine tune your playback. These are the same controllers available to sequencer users. The difference being as I see it, in a sequencer this is a visual approach. In Finale it's all done with numbers which makes it a little more vague.

  8. #8

    Re: "Here's That Rainy Day" Burke & Van Heusen GPO

    Excellent arrangement, old man Sample! Very pretty. I love your "minoring" (Gb instead of G) of the melodic line near the end. The soulful English horn is wonderful!

    You finally have the volume right. That's a step in the right direction.

    Analyze the terminal chord, please.

    Regards,

    Larry
    Larry G. Alexander
    www.alexandermusic.com

  9. #9
    Senior Member sosmus's Avatar
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    Re: "Here's That Rainy Day" Burke & Van Heusen GPO

    Jeff:
    As Gomer would say "Gol-ly, thank you,thank you,thank you."
    I had discovered the expression tool setting but I didn't relate CC with Velocity Control. I understand exactly what you are saying and can actually do these things. I've done so many other weird things to get the playback that I wanted, I should have thought of the 8th tied to a dble.dotted half on my own. Duh! I wasn't fully aware of the fact that the dynamic level of the dynamic marking starts where it is located, making it a "note" expression and not a "measure" expression. Are your saying I can put a dynamic at one end of a hair pin and another at the other end to get cresc./descres.? Should I use the "scale volume" also? Wow. Do I need to send you tuition for this course?

    Thanks so much.
    Steve

  10. #10
    Senior Member sosmus's Avatar
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    Re: "Here's That Rainy Day" Burke & Van Heusen GPO

    Larry:
    Thanks for the nice comments. The ending chord is actually threel chords in stacks.
    The upper voices are a Bb triad, D melody.
    The inner voices are an Eb triad at the very bottom is a Db triad. And just for fun I stuck a C in the midle of all of it, turning the whole glop into a Bb2/Eb6/DbMA9. If you care to nit-pick, you can also find an Ab chord with all of the benefits thereunto appertaining.
    Slowly, but surely, little glimmers of hope are popping up.

    Steve

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