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Topic: Withdrawal of VIP upgrades for VSL

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  1. #1

    Withdrawal of VIP upgrades for VSL

    Just got an email from VSL indicating that they are withdrawing the upgrade route from all their original sample libraries. I am absolutely livid! I know many people here probably got all the VIs ages ago, but I was only part way through, and really struggling to afford them.

    I felt safe, and well treated, though, because of their stated policy that no customer would ever pay for the same samples twice. Now that turns out not to be entirely true. More a case of, the poor customers who couldn't afford to buy everything within a given time can pay twice, whilst those who have more money needn't.

    I feel cheated. I know they've been out a long time, but for me they are a lot of money, and I was doing all I could to buy them gradually. Now it turns out I have to go back and buy all the samples again, except for those where I already have the VI.
    David

  2. #2

    Re: Withdrawal of VIP upgrades for VSL

    Well,

    there is a thread on the VSL forum and well - you are definitely not alone. I have the same feelings and I already thought that the VI upgrade policy was a bit tough regarding their 'pay once per sample'-statement - but overall it seemed acceptable and fair enough.

    This step however (well, sure one day it would happen - but less than one year after discontinuing the sample libraries officially?) seems a bit cruel - I think even MS gives 5 years support for discontinued OS-versions (if I am not totally mistaken) .....

    It would be great if they would rethink and reconsider their policy change ...

    Of course they would like us longer time customers to go VI (support, new sales, etc.) and I think some of use would also like to .... but a bit of time would be fair enough .... a couple of months seems a tough timeline ....

    best

  3. #3

    Re: Withdrawal of VIP upgrades for VSL

    Wow, I am on the verge of buying the VSL SE but was also considering Kirk Hunter's Stuff. Should I reconsider?

    Darren
    www.darrenpasdernick.com
    "Every time you play a wrong note God kills a kitten."

  4. #4

    Re: Withdrawal of VIP upgrades for VSL

    Quote Originally Posted by dpasdernick View Post
    Wow, I am on the verge of buying the VSL SE but was also considering Kirk Hunter's Stuff. Should I reconsider?

    Darren
    Before I would now buy VSL Se I would listen also to Kirk Hunter`s libs and Peter Siedlaczek`s "String Essentials Second Edition" library. There you get many much more for your money!

    Gunther
    "Music is the shorthand of emotion." Leo Tolstoy

    Listen to me, tuning my triangle http://www.box.net/shared/ae822u6r3i

  5. #5

    Re: Withdrawal of VIP upgrades for VSL

    Vienna SE is a very good library. I bought it last year and I use it all of the time right alongside EWQLSO Platinum. I have Kirk's Sapphire library but seldom use it. That's just me though.

  6. #6

    Re: Withdrawal of VIP upgrades for VSL

    Quote Originally Posted by dpasdernick View Post
    Wow, I am on the verge of buying the VSL SE but was also considering Kirk Hunter's Stuff. Should I reconsider?

    Darren
    Well, I have some pro and some horizon content and considering quality it is quite great (besides it is 16bit and what I mis from the library and about all the demos I know are dynamics ..... )

    So I do not think that considering the quality these products are bad - more the opposite. I also think they are quite competitive regarding the other options.

    Personally I am not a great fan of the VI though .... (sample playback machine ..... and locked library). VSL seems also to be a bit self-centered when they come up with decisions. The VI upgrade path was about 160° against their policy - in the high price range it seemed fair but you had to pay lots of money to get the fair deal (and especially for Horizon customers this may just have been to steep for some of the libraries and customers).

    Now this withdrawal is even worse if you ask me. it is not even 12 months that they sold their sample libraries and saying you only pay once per sample (although it was obvious at this point how to take this one) and that the libraries are a good starting point for upgrades to the VI libs.

    so how should we take that?

    I have some libraries which I will try to update to VI and some where I will have to consider other offers now. Some others of my horizon libs (Epic Horns and French Oboe) had never a reasonable upgrade path in the first place (- of course this is a personal opinion/statement - but have a horizon library that costed 200 € and get an upgrade path where you first had to pay about 400€ to take advantage of that - well ..... for me that seems not that reasonable ...)

    I hope they reconsider their policy but than there are people that prefer to lose customers instead of adapting their decision. Do not know if this applies to VSL-team. (OK, with the SE and the update path for Opus customers they did somehow consider the situation of some customers but when we look at it and also take the new policy into consideration than it was just optimisation of cash flow by offering a new entry level and of course staying competitive in on a lower price tag with other offerings).

    Maybe - if you can wait - see what happens with this and make your decision by what you learn from it

    VSL is clearly headed towards the big customers (with innovative and great products) but then if they are so focused on such costumers I wonder why they always make offers for the people with less heavy budgets and then why treat them in way that does not necessarily do any good. Maybe some (quite a few) just misunderstood their intentions and aims (towards their target group) but not very likely perhaps

    best

  7. #7
    Senior Member
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    656

    Re: Withdrawal of VIP upgrades for VSL

    VSL is definitely a great library, but like many of these older libraries, they have these price structures that are from another era in computer years... Although they have a lot of great things going for them, as far as having their many articulations, a lot fo the new libraries are able to do that nowadays with scripting... They have had to lower the price of their entry level library simply because people are buying other things...

    Certainly, a combination of different libraries that are more affordable are going to give you great results... another library that I think is still overpriced is the Sonivox... Once again, no question about it, a great library, but their price is way overpriced for these times, particularly since this is a product that has been around for many years...

    Kirk Hunter, Westgate, xsample, Garritan and other developers are showing that you don't have to spend multiple thousand dollars to have a great sound library... The future is going to belong to developers who come up with affordable libraries that sound great... I also think that a variety of libraries are going to give you better results than relying on one developer for everything...

  8. #8

    Re: Withdrawal of VIP upgrades for VSL

    As mentioned, there is a similar post to this one over at the VSL forum. I seem to recall a similar situation with VSL a few years ago. There was a ton of frustration over the "you won't pay for any sample twice" promise. They had gone back on their word back then and now it seems history is repeating itself. There's a quote on the VSL forum worth mentioning "When registering your First Edition, you are automatically entitled to all privileges of the Vienna Symphonic Library VIP program and therefore eligible to upgrade to the PRO EDITION for the reduced VIP price at any later date." The words "at any later date" sure hold some meaning now.

    What VSL should keep in mind is that they built their company on the backs (or wallets if you will) of people who bought the older products and kept them afloat through the early years. To turn their backs on these people now is terrible. I am suprised at how many people are "pleading" with VSL and not using harsher words. Yes, they make a great product but everyday there are more and more choices. For some people buying into a company is more than just the product. Gary Garritan has built a mini-empire with almost a cult-like following based on his products, and more importantly, great personality and service. Bela D. Media and Spectrasonics are also in this league.

    Herb, if you read this reconsider. You make great software but it seems this decision is just plain wrong. You will not force people into upgrading in the next three months. Cash is tight these days. You will lose that money forever. Think long term. Keep your client base happy and through their word of mouth you will gain more clients. Currently, you seem to be going in the opposite direction.

    With all due respect,

    Darren
    (a potential customer)
    www.darrenpasdernick.com
    "Every time you play a wrong note God kills a kitten."

  9. #9

    Re: Withdrawal of VIP upgrades for VSL

    Quote Originally Posted by dpasdernick View Post
    What VSL should keep in mind is that they built their company on the backs (or wallets if you will) of people who bought the older products and kept them afloat through the early years. To turn their backs on these people now is terrible. I am suprised at how many people are "pleading" with VSL and not using harsher words.
    Well, maybe we think that harsher words do not really help. If you look at how VSL talks about their achievements and their products and history - I am not sure they will listen to harsher words at all. They have (had or if they want) great customer support and I think we should tell them our opinion in normal, kind words and hope that they communicate, understand and reconsider.

    I think a lot of us find the situation to be not what we would have expected from our past experiences with VSL and a cold business move we all know from different business branches.

    As some have pointed out - there are alternatives, and well, I think for me it is looking at what I can get from VSL (upgrading sample libs) and then looking somewhere else in the future.

    Personally I find the statement that keeping the updates is administratively to complicated very strange - seems like they prefer to keep their (well) limited business administration model (SAP software config or whatever) and prefer to change their customers. I would think that the other way round would be a better move - but then I am biased as I am one of those that gets exchanged

    It is hard to get a good reputation - VSL achieved that overnight. It is pretty easy to lose it thou ..... that can also be achieved overnight. To regain it then .... that is a rather tough job.

    best

  10. #10

    Re: Withdrawal of VIP upgrades for VSL

    Quote Originally Posted by tradivoro View Post
    Kirk Hunter, Westgate, xsample, Garritan and other developers are showing that you don't have to spend multiple thousand dollars to have a great sound library
    Sounds wise...

    Mac Pro Quad Core, 23" Apple Cinema, Logic Pro 8.x + VSL PRO Edition, some of the VI's, GPO, Ivory, Edirol UA-25 audio card, Event TR6 monitors, 1 girlfriend (Ines).

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