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Topic: OT: HELP! WARNING! music e-commerce fraud...

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  1. #1

    Exclamation OT: HELP! WARNING! music e-commerce fraud...

    Dear collegues, we all buy lot of software with e-commerce transactions.

    For that reason I ask your help, and I launch a warning.

    I've been victim of an unbelievable fraud in Germany:

    The company "DJ Palace / Musik Palace Berlin" was advertising as "shipping in 3 days" Cubase Essential 3 months ago, when it was not available yet. (It's already a suspect action, but nothing wrong in being quickly active updating the site ready for the imminent launch...)

    I payed via PayPal the price, but they never sent anything to me. At every reminder or complaint via e-mail they simply don't answer, at every call to the hotline, they always answer "shipping next week".

    In this way they consumed the time for asking PayPal for refound (45 days) and after that they no longer answer to any kind of call or message or fax asking to payback the money.

    Actually i didn't receive anything, and didn't recive any refound. I wrote to the German Consumer Association, but they refused helping me.

    So:
    1) WARNING! The DJ Palace / Musik Palace Berlin company is not relaiable at all, and maybe is running a voluntary fraud.

    2) HELP! Is any German Forum Member available to help me with some suggestion or linguistic support?

    Thankyou,

    Fabio

  2. #2

    Re: OT: HELP! WARNING! music e-commerce fraud...

    Sorry to hear that. That s*cks big time.
    I do speak in german ( though I live in Austria ) what kind of help do you need.
    Some translation maybe ?
    best regards

    Przemyslaw K.

  3. #3

    Re: OT: HELP! WARNING! music e-commerce fraud...

    That is terrible Fabio...
    Thank you for the warning. I hope that you solve this problem soon.

    Best,

    Tari
    Eduardo Tarilonte |Sample Library Developer
    SampleLibraries |MyWeb

  4. #4

    Re: OT: HELP! WARNING! music e-commerce fraud...

    At least in the U.S., I always pay with a credit card if I am concerned about fraud. With a credit card I can get my money back.

    PayPal has almost no real protection, and you definitely have to file a dispute within their time frame or they ignore the claim.

    Sorry you were burned.

  5. #5

    Re: OT: HELP! WARNING! music e-commerce fraud...

    Sorry to hear this Fabio.

    I speak German, but business, commerce and related areas are definitely the weakest spot in my vocab. If I can help in any other way, though, let me know.
    David

  6. #6

    Re: OT: HELP! WARNING! music e-commerce fraud...

    Quote Originally Posted by Wafflemaster View Post
    With a credit card I can get my money back.
    .
    Are you sure about that? I recently purchased online in a well known company (I won't say the name though) and the money was charged twice, one with VAT and next day the ammount without VAT (I pay without VAT because I have a company number to do that) I paid with VISA and I am still waiting to see who did it wrong. The company says it is a VISA fault and VISA says that the company has to refund me the money...crazy...

    Let's see what finally happens.
    Eduardo Tarilonte |Sample Library Developer
    SampleLibraries |MyWeb

  7. #7

    Unhappy Re: OT: HELP! WARNING! music e-commerce fraud...

    Quote Originally Posted by TARI View Post
    Are you sure about that? ... The company says it is a VISA fault and VISA says that the company has to refund me the money...crazy...

    Let's see what finally happens.
    With VISA I also had some truble producing documents after a fraud in Brazil, but finally I had my money back.

    I think you will finally have a refound. If not... keep us informed!

  8. #8

    Re: OT: HELP! WARNING! music e-commerce fraud...

    Quote Originally Posted by TARI View Post
    Are you sure about that? I recently purchased online in a well known company (I won't say the name though) and the money was charged twice, one with VAT and next day the ammount without VAT (I pay without VAT because I have a company number to do that) I paid with VISA and I am still waiting to see who did it wrong. The company says it is a VISA fault and VISA says that the company has to refund me the money...crazy...
    At least in the U.S., credit card companies have a formal dispute process, where you can dispute specific charges via writing. The commercial business has to then prove the charges are valid or the item is removed from your bill.

    I would suggest calling both VISA and the company to keep pressure on them to resolve the issue.

  9. #9

    Re: OT: HELP! WARNING! music e-commerce fraud...

    Quote Originally Posted by TARI View Post
    Are you sure about that? I recently purchased online in a well known company (I won't say the name though) and the money was charged twice, one with VAT and next day the ammount without VAT (I pay without VAT because I have a company number to do that) I paid with VISA and I am still waiting to see who did it wrong. The company says it is a VISA fault and VISA says that the company has to refund me the money...crazy...

    Let's see what finally happens.
    How is VISA at fault? Your money didn't go to them; it went to the company. You have to get your money back from the company. Do I understand you correctly in that you were charged for two products instead of one?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fabio View Post
    Dear collegues, we all buy lot of software with e-commerce transactions.

    For that reason I ask your help, and I launch a warning.

    I've been victim of an unbelievable fraud in Germany:

    The company "DJ Palace / Musik Palace Berlin" was advertising as "shipping in 3 days" Cubase Essential 3 months ago, when it was not available yet. (It's already a suspect action, but nothing wrong in being quickly active updating the site ready for the imminent launch...)

    I payed via PayPal the price, but they never sent anything to me. At every reminder or complaint via e-mail they simply don't answer, at every call to the hotline, they always answer "shipping next week".

    In this way they consumed the time for asking PayPal for refound (45 days) and after that they no longer answer to any kind of call or message or fax asking to payback the money.

    Actually i didn't receive anything, and didn't recive any refound. I wrote to the German Consumer Association, but they refused helping me.

    So:
    1) WARNING! The DJ Palace / Musik Palace Berlin company is not relaiable at all, and maybe is running a voluntary fraud.

    2) HELP! Is any German Forum Member available to help me with some suggestion or linguistic support?

    Thankyou,

    Fabio
    Sorry you got screwed. Let me explain something to you, and anyone else who is listening - been there, almost got screwed a few times; had my own small amp and guitar company for a while where we received payment mostly through PayPal....

    Here is what you do:

    You file a complaint with PayPal immediately. Do not wait until the deadline has passed, and for the merchant to eat away at the 45-day "grace" period. They know that exists, and they know most people won't file a complaint immediately. So when the merchant says "shipping tomorrow - you should have it in 4-5 days" - so what? File a complaint anyway. File a complaint even if they say it is in the mail. File one even if you have a tracking number. Be aggressive - do not sit and wait around to get screwed.

    Order something Jan 1. Wait 2-3 days, if you do not receive a tracking number from the merchant, call/email them. If they do not send you a tracking number, or give you one over the phone, file a complaint w/PayPal. Yes - 3 days after the order was placed. If the company sends you a tracking number, track the package, and see what the delivery date is. Say it's Jan 9. If you do not receive it on the 9th, call the carrier to find out what happened. If they say they could not deliver that day, but will the next, fine - wait one more day. Chances are, you will get it, because the carrier has no agenda, and does not cater to the merchant. If the carrier says "the package went back - we couldn't find the address" or some other excuse, file a complaint. Yes, 9 days after the order was placed. Why not? Why wait?

    PayPal will ask if you contacted the company in order to try and resolve the issue. Tell them yes, I spoke with them, but they refuse to ship it. PayPal will then contact the company. Then two things will happen: 1) The merchant will say, "oh crap - this guy knows what he is doing!" and you will have a tracking number the next day, and the package a few days later, and the merchant will give the tracking number to PayPal, or 2) PayPal will not receive any satisfactory answer from the merchant, and refund the money to you.

    Thing is: do not wait. Do not be a nice guy; do not show patience and understanding; do not give the company the benifit of the doubt that they are honest. Not until they prove to you that they are, which is when you receive what you paid for. if you file a complaint prematurely, and wind up receiving the item, you can always withdraw the complaint (PayPal likes when you do this) or, if you somehow manage to get a refund, you can always pay the company back.

    Cheers.

  10. #10

    Re: OT: HELP! WARNING! music e-commerce fraud...

    Oh,

    I am very sorry to hear this, Fabio.

    If I can help you, because I am german, please pm me!

    My best,

    Gunther
    "Music is the shorthand of emotion." Leo Tolstoy

    Listen to me, tuning my triangle http://www.box.net/shared/ae822u6r3i

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