• Register
  • Help
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 20

Topic: Make your own choir!

Share/Bookmark
  1. #1

    Make your own choir!

    Funnily enough I was just asked to score a trailer (and of course they want loud evil choir! ) but I\'ve found a good way around that, albeit a little timeconsuming.
    I\'m recording myself singing the same evil chant about 10 times (overdubbing) and panning out each take seperately, with a seperate reverb. Works like a charm, and it actually sounds like a real choir. I was so amazed by this technique when I first tried it yesterday. I couldn\'t believe my ears. I thought there would be phasing problems and a homogenous sound (due to the same timbre of my voice being overdubbed) but these problems were minimal. So I\'m getting a full evil male choir singing real phrases! The whole recording session + postprocessing took me about 30 mins for a 30 second phrase. Definitely some stiff competition to what it takes to build words with Classical Choir. And it sounds much better too.

    People interesting in adopting this technique could email me and I will help out with the technical issues surrounding it.

    Before I get VoTA, this is the only way for me to go. Besides I wouldn\'t be able to use VoTA for this trailer project anyway.

    Here\'s a mellow example: http://finjaco.home.online.no/Mens_choir_dubtest.mp3

    (yeah it\'s somewhat out of tune, but hey I\'m no choir boy )


    Thomas

  2. #2

    Re: Make your own choir!

    Thomas... you\'re sure you\'re not kidding yourself too much here? I mean, yes it sounds pretty useful, but it sounds like a small choir (which might be on purpose) and it DOES sound very homogenous. Sounds like 3 people with the same voice standing in a church or something. Also a lot of resonance coming from somewhere but I guess some of that could be EQ\'ed out

    Don\'t get me wrong. You\'re a hell of a composer, but I think your objectivity can be in question about these home-recordings. Love the bambooflute though!!

  3. #3

    Re: Make your own choir!

    Thanks Simon. My dad just walked in and asked what horrible choir I was listening to. But he said CHOIR. So goal achieved! In a loud and banging hollywood orchestration this technique will be god d*mn useful if you ask me

    So wait and see Simon I\'ll send you a snippet of the trailer score by the end of this week and you can judge for yourself whether it sounds good or not

    And do yourself a favor and try playing some chords over that mp3 with your favorite full strings patch. It sounds pretty natural.

    I shouldn\'t have said what I was doing at first.. you\'d get a chance to figure it out yourself Oh well..
    I\'m still pretty excited about this technique. With some decent singer it could be very effective. I\'ve tried the same technique with a female to make that haunting titanic choir and it works great in a mix. The point is that all the transitions and words sound real. Layer this in with the classical choir and I\'m sure some of the homogenic sound you hear will disappear.

    And I\'m not fooling myself, I\'m fooling everybody I\'ve asked to listen to it already (except you guys coz I posted the secret recipe up front )

    The best thing is that it\'s simple, quick and free. It will never sound like a professional choir, but it will fool the casual listener if he\'s not aware of what is going on. Depending on your voice to begin with of course

    Thomas

  4. #4

    Re: Make your own choir!

    Just a thought here.. you might get some additional good sound out of processing each \"voice double\" through melodyne to change formants slightly. Possibly it can help with phasing slightly if you lengthen/shorten arbitrary small sections near the start too. It\'s expensive software though very cool.

  5. #5

    Re: Make your own choir!

    Jeff, I will definitely try that. The demo can process one soundfile for free right?
    As for phasing I did finetune each individual take to differ from each other.
    I don\'t think phasing is a problem here though.

    Thomas

  6. #6

    Re: Make your own choir!

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Thomas_J:
    Thanks Simon. My dad just walked in and asked what horrible choir I was listening to. But he said CHOIR. So goal achieved! In a loud and banging hollywood orchestration this technique will be god d*mn useful if you ask me

    So wait and see Simon I\'ll send you a snippet of the trailer score by the end of this week and you can judge for yourself whether it sounds good or not
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    OK but this just sounds like it is not supposed to be in the background. Sounds like foreground/acapella stuff? It would be interesting if you could do a more FF choir test and see how it would blend in the background. Something like Duel of the Fates maybe?? ) I know Duel is not in the background exactly. But you know what I mean




    [This message has been edited by Simon Ravn (edited 03-22-2002).]

  7. #7

    Re: Make your own choir!

    This was not for the trailer This was just a quick test. I\'m working on it Simon!! Will do some very evil FFF stuff by the end of next week! Looking forward to hearing how it blends in a large orchestral setting as well. This is indeed acapella foreground stuff. Only 5-6 takes too, so that\'s why it sounds small. How many takes do you suggest I use on an evil choir? I\'ll be writing triad harmonies so my educated guess would be:
    80 people in a SATB arrangement, 20 sopranos, 20 altos, 20 tenors and 20 basses.
    I\'d prolly have to record myself like 30 times or so hehe.. Could take a while, but I hope the result pays off. It definitely sounds promising to my ears!

    Thomas

  8. #8

    Re: Make your own choir!

    LOL. Yeah 80 times. And sopranos will be hard to do but I\'m looking forward to hearing it ) Maybe you should, after recording them, take and divide them in 2 or 3 takes and EQ each of them slightly differently. And maybe use RBF Voice Tweaker to change the timbre too. I believe it can do it without changing the pitch too.

  9. #9

    Re: Make your own choir!

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Thomas_J:
    Funnily enough I was just asked to score a trailer (and of course they want loud evil choir! ) but I\'ve found a good way around that, albeit a little timeconsuming.
    I\'m recording myself singing the same evil chant about 10 times (overdubbing) and panning out each take seperately, with a seperate reverb. Works like a charm, and it actually sounds like a real choir. I was so amazed by this technique when I first tried it yesterday. I couldn\'t believe my ears. I thought there would be phasing problems and a homogenous sound (due to the same timbre of my voice being overdubbed) but these problems were minimal. So I\'m getting a full evil male choir singing real phrases! The whole recording session + postprocessing took me about 30 mins for a 30 second phrase. Definitely some stiff competition to what it takes to build words with Classical Choir. And it sounds much better too.

    People interesting in adopting this technique could email me and I will help out with the technical issues surrounding it.

    Before I get VoTA, this is the only way for me to go. Besides I wouldn\'t be able to use VoTA for this trailer project anyway.

    Here\'s a mellow example: http://finjaco.home.online.no/Mens_choir_dubtest.mp3

    (yeah it\'s somewhat out of tune, but hey I\'m no choir boy )


    Thomas
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Thomas,

    First of all, I must say that what you have just come up with is something that went over my mind after checking out Melodyne (Like Jeff said). And, the results from your demo are very promising.

    What needs to be done (I\'m sure you know this already), is:
    1-Do several takes of the same song. (First generation phrases). Each one of these will span more voices (Point 2). This is necessary to provide for slight variations of intonation and triggering-length which happen in real choirs where there\'s a bunch of people.

    2-You need to use each of the takes from Point 1, and do second generation voices. It seems that the best choice would be to use Melodyne, or some other software where you can edit the formants composition of a voice without changing the pitch (Changing the timbre). You might want as well to experiment with using slightly different EQ\'s for different voices as well (Or combining this with the formant editing). Also, using formants I\'m hopeful that you could morph a male voice into a female voice rather convincingly (Specially when mixing several of them together, as in choir).

    3-Very important:You should probably try out Soundstage, and arrange each voice in positions similar to a real choir. This will increase the realism big time! After that, use other reverb at your own discretion, to make Soundstage tails more musical.

    Congratulations again for the thought, that was very ingenious! I think you got something going here, Thomas. It\'s going to take a lot of experimentation and combination of the techniques proposed in Points 1 and 2, but I bet you could achieve some very amazing results (Specially if you record a professional singer in Point 1, and maybe make things simpler by hiring a female singer too).

    Please, keep us informed of your progress!

    Best Regards


  10. #10

    Re: Make your own choir!

    :P

    I\'ve been telling you guys to do this for days :P

    Thomas...stealing all my thunder!!! :P

    hehheh

    MrArk, yes you can do male to female changes. I do it all the time. You have to learn the formant shifter tho, and sing accordingly. Sometimes its best to sing the melody an octave lower and then do formant shift AND pitch shift, with say 3-4 formants up and a whole octave up in pitch. This works well. Trying to get falsetto female from male is more difficult and requires voice manipulation in \"the real world\" but it can be done


    Thomas, I suggest slight chorus effects, As well as the EQ variations Simon suggested. On top of formant shifting.

    Another option is to play back the song at a slower or faster speed with pitch variation then record you singing at that pitch in real time, your voice will sound different than jsutsimple pitch shifting.

    Another thing. Try using a choir sound and your voice combined in a vocoder. Layer that in the back ground with different choir sounds.



    ------------------
    Really...I am an Idiot

Go Back to forum

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •