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Topic: Playback Problems GPO/Finale08 - 1st Time

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  1. #1

    Playback Problems GPO/Finale08 - 1st Time

    For the first time I have playback problems with Finale 2008 and GPO.

    This is happening in a score of 20 staves at a point where most instruments are sounding towards the end of the score. It starts with some interference briefly followed by stuttering and cutting out. Playback then resumes but is around a bar behind the moving pointer. The music then cuts out again and restarts where the pointer has reached. This doesn't happen on every playback but does happen most of the time.

    I have used Finale for many years and with GPO since 2003/2004 and have never had any playback problems before.

    I believe my system is more than capable of handling Finale and GPO and I don't consider 20 staves to be a particularly large score.

    My setup is as follows:

    Processor: Intel P4 3.4 GB.
    Memory: 4 GB DD2 Ballistix RAM.
    Hard Drive: Samsung 120 GB with 50% free space.
    Interface: M-Audio Audiophile 192 High Definition PCI Card.
    Graphics: N-Vidia GeForce 6600 GT 128MB 560MHz GDDR3 RAM
    Cooling: Water Cooled.
    Power Suppy: Jeantec Quiet 120 mm horizontal fan, 450 Watts.

    I have tried uninstalling and reinstalling both Finale 2008 and GPO. I have all the latest updates including driver updates; I am using the latest KP2.2.4. I have defragged my hard drive and cleaned out my system emptying my cache and Temp files.

    As I mentioned, this is the first time ever that I have had this type of (playback) problem. Can anyone suggest what might be causing this problem? I would be very grateful for any suggestions.

    Many thanks.
    Michael
    Patience is a virtue, sensitivity is a gift

  2. #2

    Re: Playback Problems GPO/Finale08 - 1st Time

    Michael, just a thought - might it be worth posting a copy of the file for someone else to try playing back or taking a closer look at? I could certainly try the former for you on my machine but I don't have the midi knowledge to take an in depth look at what's going on behind the scene. I'm sure between us someone can throw some light on what's happening.

    Regards, Graham

  3. #3

    Re: Playback Problems GPO/Finale08 - 1st Time

    I'm glad you mentioned this because I thought I was the only one having problems. I just noticed the same problem recently with about the same size score.. I'm thinking my problem is disk related. That is having the samples on my C: drive with the application. I say this because the disk meter on the K2 player goes into the red occasionally. Until Wednesday or so, I'm only using the Finale sounds (full GPO should be coming soon)!!!

    Are your samples on the same drive or different one?

    Steve Winkler

  4. #4

    Re: Playback Problems GPO/Finale08 - 1st Time

    Michael,

    One thought (if you haven't tried this already) --

    This is a common problem if you happen to have a lot of hidden tempo data at that particular area in the score. This occurs if you have performed several "tempo taps" with your space bar in Studio View, or have entered and deleted a number of tempo markings at that spot. Residual tempo data sometimes accumulates, resulting in stutters and stops, or other such symptoms such as those you described.

    In the Edit menu, click on "Clear selected items". From the following window, click "Midi data" and "tempo changes" (then, of course, the OK button). See if this helps. If it does, then just re-enter the tempo data one final time with no "re-dos".

    This is just one possible cause, but a common one.

  5. #5

    Re: Playback Problems GPO/Finale08 - 1st Time

    Thank you for your replies. It's much appreciated.

    I've searched the Finale forums and there are quite a few posts on playback problems. Here is a selection that particularly caught my eye.

    I've been having the same problems. I talked with the boss man at Garritan at a conference and he told me I needed to change the buffer on my sound card to 1024. I thought I knew how, but I can't figure it out. Anyone know?
    Boss man at Garritan .. hmmm .. wonder who that is. Gary, do you know who this is? Anyway, unlike the reply, I do know how to change the buffer and I did and it didn't. It didn't solve the problem for the person in the quote either!

    ..... a final response from Finale Tech. Support yesterday. The problem according to them is:

    "a conflict between the use of ASIO drivers which is causing a compatibility problem between Finale and Kontakt Player 2. Finale must run through Direct X. The Kontakt Player 2 included with Finale is also not supported on an ASIO system.
    .. er .. a compatibility problem between Finale and KP2 and .. Finale doesn't support ASIO drivers? Yes .. this is about Finale 2008. If this is the case then how is it that I have never had playback problems before?

    As has been reported and discussed extensively of late, Finale uses "100%" CPU during playback: presumably this doesn't leave a whole bundle of processor cycles for things like redrawing.
    If this is true then this does indeed leave Finale open to problems as there is no steam left to deal with even tiny things that might, unknowingly or unintentionally crop up in the background.

    Anyway .. I do have something akin to a result. When I disable 'Human Playback' the problem goes away! This does worry me as 'Human Playback' is excellent and, for many Finale users, is a major feature. I do hope that there is something that can be done.

    Another result is that when I reinstalled Finale 2008, playback seemed to work fine. The problem was reinstated when I installed the Finale 2008a update. I'll do more experimentation with this to confirm.

    Thanks again for your input. I welcome any further thoughts and suggestions.
    Michael
    Patience is a virtue, sensitivity is a gift

  6. #6

    Re: Playback Problems GPO/Finale08 - 1st Time

    Michael, just a thought - might it be worth posting a copy of the file for someone else to try playing back or taking a closer look at? .....
    Regards, Graham
    Thanks for the offer Graham. We'll see how it goes.

    you're not allowed to have Finale playback problems. You're the one that fixes everybody else's Finale playback problems!!!

    Sorry I can't help you out, but I hope you get everything working!

    Jon
    LOL. Thanks for the support Jon.

    I'm glad you mentioned this because I thought I was the only one having problems. I just noticed the same problem recently with about the same size score..

    Are your samples on the same drive or different one?

    Steve Winkler
    Uh-oh .. please don't say this is a bug? My samples are indeed on the same drive Steve.

    Michael,

    One thought (if you haven't tried this already) --

    This is a common problem if you happen to have a lot of hidden tempo data at that particular area in the score. .....

    In the Edit menu, click on "Clear selected items". From the following window, click "Midi data" and "tempo changes" (then, of course, the OK button). See if this helps. If it does, then just re-enter the tempo data one final time with no "re-dos".

    This is just one possible cause, but a common one.
    Thanks for the suggestion DDW, I've tried this but still no joy.
    Michael
    Patience is a virtue, sensitivity is a gift

  7. #7

    Re: Playback Problems GPO/Finale08 - 1st Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael_uk View Post


    Uh-oh .. please don't say this is a bug? My samples are indeed on the same drive Steve.
    I'm not saying it's a bug. I'm really still troubleshooting on my own before I open a case with MakeMusic. That way I can say "I've done that.....I've done that.....I've done that too". The disk usage % was just something I've noticed. I may re-install the Finale sounds and will for sure install GPo on my second drive.

    If I don't get the problem resolved soon I'll open a case and share what's discussed.

    Edit: I might also add I've had several crashes (Finale core dumps) and one file that got corrupted to the point that it won't play back at all; Finale freezes. Maybe it is ASIO vs. DirectSound.

    Steve Winkler

  8. #8

    Re: Playback Problems GPO/Finale08 - 1st Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael_uk View Post
    .. er .. a compatibility problem between Finale and KP2 and .. Finale doesn't support ASIO drivers? Yes .. this is about Finale 2008. If this is the case then how is it that I have never had playback problems before?
    A while back I was running into (and still do) crackles when playing back with even a medium size group of instruments. In asking for help, Daz (Darrob) told me:
    Unfortunately, Finale does not use ASIO. Rather, it uses DirectSound. The strength of ASIO is the low latency when directing MIDI input from a midi device (keyboard, another computer etc) to an audio type player (eg a sampler) in real time. There is no real benefit when playback is initiated from within Finale.
    An example of the supremacy of ASIO over DirectSound is when you are using a keyboard to play in real time with backing provided by a midi app.
    I sure hated hearing this. Like you, I had better luck with the older versions of Finale. I also had less issues when using GPO Studio before upgrading to the new Kontakt 2 sampler.

    I do have a question for you regarding Finale. I've been working on a transcription of a choral piece for concert band with Finale. I was almost finished with it when I could no longer copy anything from one measure to another measure or from one system to another system without Finale locking up and crashing. I finally had to go back and completely rewrite the score, copying from the old score into the new one to get the thing to work. I've worked on several versions of Finale going back several years, but I've never had it do this before. Any thoughts?

    Gary
    Serenity Musician Productions (Gary A.)

    Lenovo ThinksStation S30, Windows 10 Professional 64-bit, 20 gig ram, 2 terabyte hd., M-Audio Fast Track, Finale25, Sonar Professional

  9. #9

    Re: Playback Problems GPO/Finale08 - 1st Time

    I ran into exactly this problem while doing a large
    score (Beyond the Event Horizon).

    I uninstalled QuickTime and RealMedia and the
    problem vanished.

    I'd suggest doing a serious hunt-down on any and
    all extraneous processes you have running... it
    could perhaps be a similar case of something like
    that on your system that just doesn't get along
    with Finale.

    My best,



    David
    www.DavidSosnowski.com

  10. #10

    Re: Playback Problems GPO/Finale08 - 1st Time

    Another thing you might try, which has worked for me on the few occassions where I've come across this sort of problem:

    reduce the polyphony on all the samples you are using to the strict necessary minimum.

    I have NO idea why this seems to affect playback, but I was getting, with large scores, a sort of skipping and start/stop effect, which immediately went away when I reduced the polyphony on all the instruments in the score.

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