• Register
  • Help
Page 1 of 8 1234 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 80

Topic: Un-Mockup-able Phrases and Articulations

  1. #1

    Un-Mockup-able Phrases and Articulations

    We always hear the "you write for the samples" statement. In your opinion who does that leave out to dry? What kind of things are still very hard to achieve - will we have solutions? Sometimes it is frustrating, while writing (delivering) with samples, distancing yourself from the above phrase - when you would have preferred a phrase your samples couldn't give you.

    I can think of many instances but for now i will contribute:

    ***Really fast woodwind/strings runs - IE Shostakovitch (smooth legato, staccatisimo) You throw one of those big scaly figures in front of a live player and they know what to do - they know you arrive at the top and the notes towards the bottom are less important. I guess this is the almighty "missing legato" that people are always searching for.

    ***Glissandi in the strings. Voice a chord and gliss it up an ocatve, or a fifth or harmonics at a fifth etc... Anyway to do this? ( I Do not own vienna)

    ***Natural sounding legato bowing in the strings

    There are many others, I am just kind of getting sick of hearing block chordal string patterns, D Minor in general, percussion cover up schemes etc... They are great for certain situations but sometimes when one writes by hand and then must mockup what they wrote they run into problems when you cannot achieve what is written on the paper

    If anyone could find any solutions to the above I would warmly receive them!

    Feel free to chime in.

  2. #2

    Re: Un-Mockup-able Phrases and Articulations

    well, i think you do write to the instrument you have available. When Bach writes an organ prelude, he's writing it for the pipe organ, not a string quartet. If you are writing for samples, write for the samples you have. If what you really wanna do is write for live players, then do that!

    Personally, I think a combination of VSL and Synful (if Eric ever finishes version 3.0) will yield some interesting results. The success of The Trumpet makes me curious about how modeled string sections will mature in the coming months/years. That might take care a lot of your concerns.

    Cuz isn't it true that you don't really have to compromise your phrasing when writing for Trumpet now?

  3. #3

    Re: Un-Mockup-able Phrases and Articulations

    This is why I returned to live string recordings. I guess I am pretty good with samples but the difference is still huge ...
    All your strings belong to me!

  4. #4
    Senior Member Steve_Karl's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Pittsburgh, PA 15206 USA

    Re: Un-Mockup-able Phrases and Articulations

    The long gliss is probably the only one that I see as out of reach at this point.

    I play all of my parts in from a keyboard, editing as I go along and I also approach it as a performance.

    A light touch really helps, it seems, for legato, but that might be relative to the library. I'm using KH Emerald. Also getting the release times just right is important to me. Sometimes there's overlap, sometimes there's a slight gap and sometimes even a longer gap, that's even during the same passage, and the next time it happens it might be different. I just listen and try to make it happen the way I want to hear it in that moment. Real is a relative perception.

    The fast runs and paying attention to the notes that really matter, ... velocity and duration seem to be the key to that one, for me. But I'm not opposed to slowing down the tempo to play it, or penciling it in using Piano Roll View. Sometimes even having them all the same velocity does work.

    The instrument does help, and as players we play off of the sound of the instrument, or sample.

  5. #5

    Re: Un-Mockup-able Phrases and Articulations

    Not as far along as you all; I was hoping for a universal solution 2 years ago so I bought Notion. I was shocked at what I thought was essential--glissando/portamento--being totally absent.
    I write for fiddles and trombone--I cannot mock up these parts.
    notion keeps saying they are working on it, so maybe that will come.

    I do not want to learn midi and mapping and sample libs and all that, like you all have. But it looks like the GPO strad can do what I want.

    If I get gpo can I integrate it easily with a Notion score? Or will I just move over to gpo totally if i do that?

    I really admire notion for the huge start-up they have undertaken. I want it to succeed.

    Another thing--I just listened to the Garageband demo on apple's site. They have a neat combo of fiddle, honky tonk piano, drums guitar and bass, playing in a style I would like to write for. How do they do that? the fiddle sounds very real. Is that the result of months of tweaking-- or right out of the box? Should I consider garageband just for their fiddle sound?Clearly they have a way to do sliding pitches on the fiddle in a very realistic way.

    thanks btw to all who post here, I'm learning so much from you!


  6. #6

    Re: Un-Mockup-able Phrases and Articulations

    No matter how good the samples get, they will never sound exactly like the real thing when you put them next to the real thing. And thank God for that.

    Do not worry so much about how "real" it sounds, worry about how good it sounds.

    Back in the early 90's when I was scoring "Zorro", I had a small orchestra, 22 pieces, that I augmented with samples and synths. I found that when I added a string patch from the Memorymoog to the cellos, I really liked it. Did it sound more "real" than without it? No. But it sounded better.

    So the lesson I learned is that frequently, don't strive for cello, strive for cello-ish.

    The obsession with trying to make these things sound exactly like the real thing is illusory and creatively unhealthy.

    Just make it sound great.

    IMHO, of course.
    Composer, Logic Certified Trainer, Level 2,
    author of "Going Pro with Logic Pro 9."


  7. #7

    Re: Un-Mockup-able Phrases and Articulations


    Thats one of the bestest, simplest answers that I ever heard to this "age-old" question. kudos, my friend!

  8. #8

    Re: Un-Mockup-able Phrases and Articulations

    If anyone has mp3 of those fast woodwind things please post

  9. #9

    Re: Un-Mockup-able Phrases and Articulations

    Quote Originally Posted by mojamusic View Post

    Thats one of the bestest, simplest answers that I ever heard to this "age-old" question. kudos, my friend!
    Thanks, I am blushing

    But it probably won't influence even 10% to stop persisting in this folly.
    Composer, Logic Certified Trainer, Level 2,
    author of "Going Pro with Logic Pro 9."


  10. #10

    Re: Un-Mockup-able Phrases and Articulations

    I admire what you are saying above.

    But I am trying to close the gap between what I can think up and what I can actually achieve with samples. I am hoping something someone posts here will give me an idea on how to do that more efficiently.

Go Back to forum
Page 1 of 8 1234 ... LastLast


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts