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Topic: Single Movement

  1. #1

    Single Movement

    Hello all,

    I've posted a couple shorter pieces recently and in an attempt to get my "Garritan chops" together I'm posting a more substantial piece. This is a middle movement of a larger work. I hesitate to call it a symphony and I'm not even sure it belongs with the outer two pieces.

    At any rate I would appreciate any feedback you're willing to give. One thing I'm having a little trouble coming to grips with is the mix. To me, the reverb makes some parts of this lose clarity (4:15 into the piece).

    To be specific about the signal routing, all tracks go their respecitve bus (string, woodwind, brass and percussion). These busses route to the master fader which contains the concert hall 1 preset of the ambiance reverb. Any advice specific to Sonar would be appreciated. I'm almost tempted to scrap Sonar and just rely on HumanPlayback from Finale which for the most part is good. There does however seem to be a little more realism by playing each part, rendering that part to a wav file and having the flexibility to bring it out or push it back.

    Thank you in advance for your input.

    Movement II

    Steve Winkler

  2. #2

    Re: Single Movement

    Great composition. I like this music very much. Thanks for sharing. I could not tell much about mixing but to me it sounds very natural and I guess your mix is successful.
    Jun Yamamoto
    Tokyo, Japan

  3. #3

    Re: Single Movement


    I thought this was a very nice piece.

    If you are unhappy with the mix, why not bounce each individual track and them add effects to each one?

    I use Sonar 7 Studio and find the reverbs available there, are much better than either the KP2 or ambience (which I no longer use at all).


  4. #4

    Re: Single Movement

    Thank you Jun and Ron for listening and your comments.

    Ron - I guess I'm not necessarily unhappy with the mix, but really wondering if it could be better. Or more to the point if I'm capable of making it better. Or if I'd be smarter to invest more time in tweaking my playback in Finale which is where everything begins for me anyway. I just got GPO a couple weeks ago and I'm trying to go back and render some old stuff and generally trying to come to terms with how I work now.

    Thanks again,
    Steve Winkler

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Vancouver, BC

    Re: Single Movement

    Thanks for sharing this fine piece. I thought the ambience reverb was good.

    I see the comment from Ron about tinkering with each part in Sonar. My current approach is to do all the adjusting in Finale on the score and then apply a global ambience reverb with KP2 ambience - the latter is not trivial - I tend to get it wrong and have to submit a revised version after a few comments.

    The reason I like to work on the score is that I think dynamic changes need to be coordinated with tempo changes to maximize the musical effect you want, or even with some changes to the notes - composing is a recursive process.

    Suppose one instrument seems too soft compared to another in bar x - then this could be fixed in Sonar by a volume change (or even adding reverb) but it would seem simpler to just make it louder by altering the dynamics on the score, say mp to mf.


  6. #6

    Re: Single Movement

    I agree with Jun and I really liked this well thought out and well planned piece. Like you, everything for me starts with Finale. I get the playback tweaked the best I can using Finale expression, smart shapes, midi tool, and dynamics etc. Problem with Finale is it's one size fits all mentality with limited and unfriendly midi tool. I always us hp and incorporate everything. By the point I get to with Finale, I render using Sonar 7 pe on a track by track basis through each instance of kp2 and don't use its reverb etc at all as it is little better if at all than ambience. I mostly use Sonar reverbs and eq to get the best mix that I can from the samples (brass esp. trumpet in gpo are not so good) with final mix going from all tracks to a pair of main outs. I find Sonar gives be a lot of great tweaking options that I can' t match (or even approach) in Finale, and I do not recommend Cubase as an alternative DAWs.
    Because MM is not apt to make any serious changes as far as Finale and its rendering capability I only update every 3 or 4 years. Good luck and best wishes for your continuing efforts.

  7. #7

    Re: Single Movement

    Thank you Herb and John for the insightful replies. You've given me some ideas.

    The way I rendered this piece was to print the parts and play them one by one. I guess this works fairly well if the part is within my keyboard capabilities, but I'm trying to render a piece now that has lots of woodwind runs and I'm finding myself punching in quite a bit. It never occurred to me to export the finale file and import that into Sonar, tweak from there and get the audio level up to where you can mix appropriately.

    I'll keep experimenting and the more ideas I get the better handle I get on the new "toys" I've got. I love this stuff. I wish I would have had these kinds of tools in college. Oh well......

    Thanks again,
    Steve Winkler

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Wilton, NH

    Re: Single Movement

    I really enjoyed this. You’ll have to post your whole “symphony” (or whatever you end up calling it) sometime. I’m with the others in that I don’t really hear anything to fix in the mix – it’s fine as is. Not saying somebody like DPDAN couldn’t make it sound better, but I don’t think I could.
    Trent P. McDonald

  9. #9

    Re: Single Movement

    Steve, once again I have the pleasure of a beautifully
    conceived and executed work from you... the compositional
    thought and craftsmanship is impressively well brought

    Beautifully rendered as well...

    When you're comfortable with it, I much look forward to
    hearing this in the company of its fellow movements!

    With admiration,


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