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Topic: help needed GPO oboe

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  1. #1

    Question help needed GPO oboe

    I'm trying to get some legato into Oboe Classical Solo phrases, but have no success so far...
    I have searched tutorials, and tried everything suggested.
    Whatever I do, the notes either have attacks or sound chopped and I can't make them flow.
    I used cc64 with overlaps (short, long), I tried cc21, velocity levels, portamento, and I tried different combinations of these, but... nada!
    Instrument's options in KP2 are on 'cc only'.

    Please,

    Yudit

  2. #2

    Re: help needed GPO oboe

    , after sleeping on it, I decided to switch to another instrument.
    However, if anyone has a solution I would still like to know it.

    Thanks,

    Yudit

  3. #3

    Re: help needed GPO oboe

    Hi Jon,

    Thanks for trying to help, I appreciate it!

    As to the smileys, I often feel I can't find the right smiley from the list here and I sure wish there were more... (Gary???)
    So for now I just insert images of smileys I have on my google page...

    Yudit

  4. #4

    Re: help needed GPO oboe

    Hi Yudit,

    I haven't had that problem, but I will see if I duplicate what's happening to you on my own computer tonight. By the way, if you happen to have a midi file you could pass on of what you're working on that might help me to isolate what's going on. Maybe see if there's something hidden under the radar that's foiling your oboe sound. I know that would drive me crazy. Then again, my daughter already thinks I'm nuts anyway!

    Gary
    Serenity Musician Productions (Gary A.)

    Lenovo ThinksStation S30, Windows 10 Professional 64-bit, 20 gig ram, 2 terabyte hd., M-Audio Fast Track, Finale25, Sonar Professional

  5. #5

    Re: help needed GPO oboe

    Quote Originally Posted by sunbird View Post
    I'm trying to get some legato into Oboe Classical Solo phrases, but have no success so far...
    I have searched tutorials, and tried everything suggested.
    Whatever I do, the notes either have attacks or sound chopped and I can't make them flow.
    I used cc64 with overlaps (short, long), I tried cc21, velocity levels, portamento, and I tried different combinations of these, but... nada!
    Instrument's options in KP2 are on 'cc only'.

    Please,

    Yudit
    What happens if you switch to "cc and pedal" in KP2?

    You should be able to play a legato phrase without pedal or cc64, just by overlapping the notes.

    Be sure to set the polyphony to 1.
    All your strings belong to me!
    www.strings-on-demand.com

  6. #6

    Re: help needed GPO oboe

    Quote Originally Posted by Hannes_F View Post
    Be sure to set the polyphony to 1.
    Quoting this for emphasis. This is a frequent thing people seem to miss.

    Another problem that can occur with legato depends a bit on your system specs. On my previous PC, I had trouble if I set my latency too high. (Yes, I said too high, not too low.) I did a series of tests that showed that with large latency settings, the amount of legato actually decreases as you increase the latency. It's as if the overlap of samples becomes slowly separated in concert with the latency setting.

    I don't run into this on my newer system, but then again, it's fast enough that I've never needed to try higher latency.
    - Jamie Kowalski

    All Hands Music - Kowalski on the web
    The Ear Is Always Correct - Writings on composition

  7. #7

    Re: help needed GPO oboe

    Check the polyphony in Kontakt Player 2. If it is only 1, increase it to say 4.

    Now try your legato.

    Terry

  8. #8

    Re: help needed GPO oboe

    Quote Originally Posted by Poolman View Post
    Check the polyphony in Kontakt Player 2. If it is only 1, increase it to say 4.

    Now try your legato.

    Terry
    This is exactly what Hannes and I were saying not to do in our above posts. It has been confirmed many times by Gary and his crew (and my own experience) that the legato layer of the samples only works when polyphony is set to 1.
    - Jamie Kowalski

    All Hands Music - Kowalski on the web
    The Ear Is Always Correct - Writings on composition

  9. #9

    Re: help needed GPO oboe

    Quote Originally Posted by serenitymusician View Post
    By the way, if you happen to have a midi file you could pass on of what you're working on that might help me to isolate what's going on.
    Thanks, Gary, for offering to help, but I moved on and I don't remember in which file I had the problem...
    Quote Originally Posted by Hannes_F View Post
    What happens if you switch to "cc and pedal" in KP2?
    You should be able to play a legato phrase without pedal or cc64, just by overlapping the notes.
    Be sure to set the polyphony to 1.
    Yes, Hannes, it's true that you can have legato by overlap without cc64, but it depends on the instrument. I tried that with the oboe but it didn't work.
    About the polyphony set to 1, read on...
    Quote Originally Posted by Skysaw View Post
    Another problem that can occur with legato depends a bit on your system specs. On my previous PC, I had trouble if I set my latency too high.
    Jamie, my latency is fine, but thanks for suggesting it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Poolman View Post
    Check the polyphony in Kontakt Player 2. If it is only 1, increase it to say 4.
    Now try your legato.
    Terry, I tried this today with a bassoon and a flute, and they both, without doubt, have better legato (with cc64) when the polyphony is more than 1. I went up to 6 and it still sounded good. When I lowered it back to 1 I couldn't get a legato, even when I changed the overlaps. Raising it to 2 immediately created legato.
    So, thanks for your suggestion.

    It seems to me that one can't generalize and say that all woods or all strings need the same polyphony. I think every instrument needs a different set of all the components that create legato. Even more so, it depends on the notes interval and whether it goes up or down, again, individually for each instrument.


    Yudit

  10. #10

    Re: help needed GPO oboe

    Quote Originally Posted by jjloving View Post
    My question is what about the section patches? I've never had a problem getting legato playback with the section patches, leaving the polyphony at 32 (or any other number). however if I set it to 1, playback is separated between notes. So is this something that applies only to the solo/player instruments, or have I been doing this wrong all along?!
    There is a difference between using the legato sound layer and simply having the notes overlap. The legato layer is only engaged when four things are true:

    1. The patch is set to one voice only
    2. The pedal setting is "no sustain/sustenuto, but MIDI controller"; or
    no "sustain/sustenuto, but MIDI switch"
    3. The pedal (C#64) is engaged.
    4. The notes overlap.

    Using more than one voice can give a small illusion of legato because it allows voices to overlap in time. However, the transitional phase of the patch that allows it to sound realistic is not used in this set-up. It also means that you will for a very brief time have two notes sounding from a solo instrument, which is not at all natural.

    Most of this is fairly well masked if you have an ensemble patch playing in harmonies, but you are not using the legato layer. The way to set up an ensemble in your sequencer is to use one track per player, and each track have its own single-voice patch loaded.

    For example, if I want two oboes, I will usually load up oboe #1 on track one and oboe #2 on track two. Each is set to one-voice, and Kontakt player is set to "no sustain/sustenuto operation, but MIDI controller." Then each oboe gets its own monophonic MIDI track. This is the only way to fully utilize the legato layer in GPO for a section.
    - Jamie Kowalski

    All Hands Music - Kowalski on the web
    The Ear Is Always Correct - Writings on composition

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