• Register
  • Help
Results 1 to 7 of 7

Topic: Woodwind legato inconsistency

Share/Bookmark
  1. #1

    Woodwind legato inconsistency

    I realize I posted about this before about a year ago, and I believe Tom said this would be fixed in an upcoming release. There is a definite difference in volume/timbre between a woodwind played legato vs. non-legato (sustain pedal up). Here is a short example I did with piano and English Horn.

    http://www.pforsich.net/misc/Divinium_mysterium.mp3

    Notice how loud the first note of each phrase in the English Horn is compared to the rest. I assure you the velocity and modwheel are nearly constant. This is happening with almost every woodwind instrument.

    I have the KP2 update of GPO (a few years old). KP2 version is 2.2.3.003. Granted I have rebuilt my machine and re-installed GPO since my last post, but I remember this same thing happened before and I was also on the latest KP2 update as well.

    This is very frustrating. I can't create a soft, smooth woodwind line this way. Thanks for your responses!
    "You know, Lois, I'm really not comfortable talking about this amelodically." - Brian the Dog

  2. #2

    Re: Woodwind legato inconsistency

    You can have a smooth beginning of phrases. I just tested this, because I ran into that same thing, not as clearly as yours, but still.

    Go to:

    http://www.box.net/shared/vnsqp0i88c


    You will find three files there. The names are self-explanatorial.
    The names with only velocity in them have constant CC#1 (to say: just the same). I've put the CC#64 before the start of the first note.

    Hope to have helped you. Be aware of the fact that there MUST be some "triggering" volume (and velocity).

    Raymond

  3. #3

    Re: Woodwind legato inconsistency

    Raymond,

    I listened to your samples and I really didn't hear the same effect that I created. Yes I did try just holding down the sustain pedal throughout, but doesn't that seem a little unrealistic? Listening to a wind player play a phrase in one breath, does it not take a fraction of a second for that first note to sound as the air passes through? That is what I was going for in that performance. All I know is I was able to re-produce that fairly well before I upgraded (though I'm not entirely convinced the KP2 patch is the culprit). It doesn't seem to matter whether velocity is high or low or CC#1 is high or low. I really think something is wrong here.
    "You know, Lois, I'm really not comfortable talking about this amelodically." - Brian the Dog

  4. #4

    Re: Woodwind legato inconsistency

    I ran into this problem as well recently. I downloaded the updates and the problem seemed to be fixed for a while, but then it came back.

    I went into the full Kontakt to look at the volumes of all the groups, and found that the legato was considerably lower than the non legato group.

    This also seems to be the case in instruments that do not display this problem, but when I made the volumes the same on the problem instruments (most noticably the oboes and english horns, but also I think on all the wood-winds to some extent), the problem seemed to go away.

    So my solution was to go into the full K2 and equalize the volume of the legato and non-legato groups under the group editor. I don't know if I lost anything, since other instruments also showed that, but the legato problem is fixed. Maybe I can post those somewhere if you don't have the full K2, but it will have to wait until next week as I am out of town right now.

    --Richard

  5. #5

    Re: Woodwind legato inconsistency

    When I test the two English Horns in K2 I don't hear any volume difference between attack/legato whatsoever. Since my MIDI keyboard has died I use the computer keyboard instead. This ensures the velocity is the same on each note. I don't think you should start to mess with the group volumes; they are clearly calibrated to give a homogeneous performance. Like Jon said: you are supposed to shape the attack using velocity and CC#1 to yield a realistic, musical result.

  6. #6

    Re: Woodwind legato inconsistency

    jjloving,
    Yes, Polyphony was maxed out to 1.

    Sharkbat,
    Obviously I don't have the full version of KP2 otherwise I think I would have tried to tweak that long ago. I'm not sure how Garritan would feel about distributing a modified file from the library, but if you think you could attach that or at least forward it to me, I might want to try that.

    I agree you should be able to shape the attack with velocity and CC#1--that's what I tried doing, but no combination yielded a good enough result. It was simply way too much of a difference between legato and non-legao for me to be even considered a "homogeneous" performance.

    One thing I just thought of was the installation of updates. When I reinstalled GPO, I obviously started with the base original version, so I had to install all the updates. If I didn't install the updates in the right order, might it have messed up the library somewhat? I think I had to re-install these downloads in the following order:
    GPO_102U_Win_Setup.zip
    GPO_11U_Win_Setup.zip
    GPO108U_Win_Setup.zip
    GPO_KP2_222U_Win.zip
    KontaktPlayer2_223U_Win.zip
    KontaktPlayer2_224U_Win.zip

    Not sure if any of these were cumulative, so I thought I would be safe by installing all of them.
    "You know, Lois, I'm really not comfortable talking about this amelodically." - Brian the Dog

  7. #7

    Re: Woodwind legato inconsistency

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickie Fønshauge View Post
    When I test the two English Horns in K2 I don't hear any volume difference between attack/legato whatsoever. Since my MIDI keyboard has died I use the computer keyboard instead. This ensures the velocity is the same on each note. I don't think you should start to mess with the group volumes; they are clearly calibrated to give a homogeneous performance. Like Jon said: you are supposed to shape the attack using velocity and CC#1 to yield a realistic, musical result.
    On my laptop I believe everything is okay, but on my desktop there was definitely a difference in volume (on the sustain part of the note) and not just in attack. This is with no modwheel data added.

    As I said, for several months the issue seemed to be fixed, and since there were no updates released I don't know what would have caused it, but the same problem resurfaced on my system. Modifying the files seems to have fixed it, and I do still have the originals in case I need to go back to them.

    As to posting them, I don't know that I should post them, but I might be able to if I need to.

    --Richard

Go Back to forum

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •