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Topic: Piano different perspectives vs. reverb

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  1. #1

    Piano different perspectives vs. reverb

    Well, I know that if you have a piano sample set with audience/wide/ambient perspective, you're pretty much out of luck if you don't want so much 'room' or natural reverb, since it's part of the sound already.

    I'm wondering if, with a GOOD reverb, you can get pretty much any kind of ambience you want, say for instance you start with a player's perspective sample set. Any opinions?

  2. #2

    Re: Piano different perspectives vs. reverb

    I think convlution verbs to a pretty good job, although it's not the same. Convolution stuff definitely sounds different (as in realistic) than plain reverbs.

  3. #3

    Re: Piano different perspectives vs. reverb

    Thanks for the reply kensuguro. Although I've not used a convolution reverb as yet, my understanding is that you can define the space an instrument is in pretty precisely. I'd guess that if mic placement is done very well, that would be better than the best reverb in any SINGLE situation.

    But since there are so many choices about mic placement, IMO fine control of the space, like you might get with a great reverb, could be more useful than 2-3-4 different perspectives, as good as they might be. I've never been a fan of audience perspective/ambient mic-ing because, the way I see it, you're stuck with what you get to a large extent. Close/player's perspective mic-ing, OTOH, seems the most flexible.

  4. #4

    Re: Piano different perspectives vs. reverb

    you can try out convolution with this free one:
    http://www.knufinke.de/sir/sir1.html

    and get some impulses here:
    http://noisevault.com/nv/index.php?o...tory&Itemid=29

    You'll find all sorts of impulses from amp cabinets to effects units, and of course, rooms.

  5. #5

    Re: Piano different perspectives vs. reverb

    Thanks, I'll check those out, and it looks like the Noise Vault is a pretty interesting site!

  6. #6

    Re: Piano different perspectives vs. reverb

    Hollywood Impulse Responses" is a relatively new product by Numerical Sound that can add ambience to a piano but to other instruments as well. This product has three very unique features that are not available in any other reverberation impulses in the marketplace.

    1) Based on 20 major Hollywood blockbuster films released between 1977-2006

    2) Timbre. The second feature unquie to HIR is that the impulses were designed to change the percieved timbre of an individual instrument such as a piano, ensemble or even the entire orchestra. The user can now adjust the tone of a track by selecting the appropriate Dark, Warm, Flat, Clear or Bright impulse when mixing the wet signal in with the dry. This dramatic effect cannot be matched by any kind of EQ. The advantage of this is that you can change the overall timbre of your piano by applying these RI's - similar reverberation impulses were developed and used in the Bluthner Digital Model One - www.proaudiovault.com )

    3) Instruments. A new feature unique to HIR is the addition of 6 sets of RI’s that are high pass filtered at points of the frequency spectrum that match the range of acoustic instruments. These point are at the notes C2, G2, C3, G3, C4, and G4. This instrument designed approach offer much more sonic precision and clarity than any other currently available hardware or software reverberation. For example if you have a solo violin track the RI’s from the G3 set will exactly match the range of this instrument. C3 would work for the Viola and C2 for the Cello.~


    Many timbral RI's can be heard at http://www.numericalsound.com/HIR_Demos.html



    Ernest Cholakis
    Numerical Sound/ProAudioVault
    www.numericalsound.com
    www.proaudiovault.com

    03-05-2008, 04:56 AM Re:

  7. #7

    Re: Piano different perspectives vs. reverb

    Thanks Ernest, sounds very interesting, great website by the way.

  8. #8

    Re: Piano different perspectives vs. reverb

    To my eyes, the big question is: how do you achieve a sufficiently dry recording to which the convolution reverb is added?

    If you have a perfect studio with no reflections, and you place the mics so that you can adequately capture the piano's resonance, which are recorded in full length...

    ...then (but only then) convolution reverb may match ambience recording.

  9. #9

    Re: Piano different perspectives vs. reverb

    Hi mat123,

    Well, my thought was to start with player's/close perspective mic-ing, which would allow very little 'room' into the recording, then to add ambience with reverb. Not a new idea. I was curious if anyone knew how close sonically to an ambient perspective sample set you could get using reverb.

    You can always add reverb, but you can't really take it away. So, for me, with audience perspective piano samples you have to want that particular effect, while with close perspective samples you have much more flexibility.

    For me, it's also about cost effectiveness. I already have a lot of piano libraries, and undoubtedly I'll be purchasing more. Flexibility is good.

  10. #10

    Re: Piano different perspectives vs. reverb

    Quote Originally Posted by michael88s View Post
    Hi mat123,

    Well, my thought was to start with player's/close perspective mic-ing, which would allow very little 'room' into the recording, then to add ambience with reverb...
    Well, e.g. Garritan Steinway's player perspective already has quite some reverb/resonance in it...

    Quote Originally Posted by michael88s View Post
    You can always add reverb...
    Of course, you can. But I am not so sure if it's a good idea. I'm only speculating here, but if there is already reverb from room A in the sample and you add a convolution corresponding to room B, then, what is the geometry of room AB?

    Just theory, no real experience with reverb...

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