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Topic: JABB Project

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  1. #1

    JABB Project

    I'm doing a fun project, which includes brass. My days of recording live brass, bands etc are well gone, so this is really for fun.
    I'm copying an existing song and using Jabb.
    4 Trumpets, 4 Alto sax, 3 Tenor sax and 3 Bones. The reason i'm posting is that the brass is not punchy enough, i've set up the instruments in Kontakt Player 2 to make them sound individual, they're eq'd and compressed a little, with a little verb but what i'm looking for is'nt there.
    Some of you seasoned Jabb users might have some ideas?
    No 1 on this attachment is the original, No 2 my version, This is only a rough mix! and No 3 just the brass.
    Any suggestions!
    http://media.putfile.com/a1-38-26

    Phil

  2. #2

    Re: JABB Project

    This sort of thing is always difficult bit I think the rhythm section is too far forward in the mix and the brass too far back.
    On the original the brass sounds at first listening to be placed right in the middle of the stage as if they're all standing in a bunch, but then appears more spread, in yours they sound further back and spread much wider.
    Also your sound is duller, there is a bright crisp feel to the original.
    Can you try (a) panning the brass nearer the centre (b) raising the volume a little on the brass and (c) applying a little equalisation to the trumpets to bring up the brightness. I don't guarantee that this will work.

    The weird thing is that on my own music I can't see similar problems, perhaps because I'm too close; on other peoples, coming at it fresh it seems easier.
    Derek
    Things may come and things may go but the art school dance goes on forever
    NOW WITH Cubase 5, JABB,GPO, Fender Strat, Ibanez RG, Yamaha Fretless Bass, Framus Archtop, The Trumpet and Mr T Sax, together with GREEN SEALING WAX


  3. #3

    Re: JABB Project

    Hi Derek,
    I understand what you're saying, but the mix, as I said is only rough, it's the punch in the brass is what i'm most concerned with. All the instruments have some top put on them, i'll try a little more on the trumpets and see how that works
    The original brass has saxes panned centre/left, with trumpets middle/right.
    I've been recording bands etc since the 70's the difference with recording live brass as apposed to virtual is, the mikes pick up a lot of overspill and dirt, and sometimes a little dirt is not a bad thing!
    Phil

  4. #4

    Re: JABB Project

    Try a little convolution reverb on the trumpets or all the brass, that might lift them. They have a dull quality about them, I thinkl its just trial and error or a great deal of skill thats required.
    Derek
    Things may come and things may go but the art school dance goes on forever
    NOW WITH Cubase 5, JABB,GPO, Fender Strat, Ibanez RG, Yamaha Fretless Bass, Framus Archtop, The Trumpet and Mr T Sax, together with GREEN SEALING WAX


  5. #5

    Re: JABB Project

    I'd suggest an exciter or at least some high end EQ for the section. Also, program a little vibrato on the long notes. Last, the JABB horn section in Ex 2 sounds like it's playing slightly ahead of the beat. You might try adjusting the timings of the notes to be either on the beat or slightly behind it. In any case don't have any two notes start at the exact same time. That will result in the dreaded "organ stop" sound that kills any sense of realism.

    One other thought occurs - go through and try out the different instruments in each category. For example, the four tenor saxes sound pretty different and range from a warm mellow sound to a bright edgy sound. Go with the latter. Use trumpet 1 and trombone 1. Avoid trumpets 2 and 3. There's a nice variety in the alto saxes as well. Starting with brighter instruments might negate the need for extra DSP after the fact.
    Paul Baker
    Baker's Jazz And More
    Austin, Texas, USA
    www.bakersjazzandmore.com

  6. #6

    Re: JABB Project

    Paul,
    You're right about some of the instruments being a bit mellow, i've eq'd these, but I don't like over eq'ing things they tend to sound wrong then.
    Is it possible to use two or three of say trumpet 1 without the sound messing up in jabb.
    As for dropping some instruments, i've not tried that because I wanted that bigger brass sound.
    The verb is actually quite bright with a short tail for a punchier sound.
    There is vibrato on the long notes, i'll try improving it.
    Thanks all for your input.

    Phil

  7. #7

    Re: JABB Project

    Yes, you can use all Trumpet 1 if you want. Either use the Lite patch or just assign each track to a different MIDI channel and load the K2 player accordingly. It's possible that reducing the number of instruments might result in more clarity, especially if you're doubling notes on the same part with the same instruments ( 3 trumpet 2's playing the same pitch) .
    Paul Baker
    Baker's Jazz And More
    Austin, Texas, USA
    www.bakersjazzandmore.com

  8. #8

    Re: JABB Project

    Can't you also control the attack to some degree with the velocity settings, since they aren't controling volume in JABB?

  9. #9

    Re: JABB Project

    That's one of the major issues with JABB currently. There is very little variation in attack, regardless of the velocity. If you go with a lower velocity, to my ears, it sounds like they apply an envelope to the amplitude which results in more of a fade in which first, is pretty obvious when heard and second, makes it difficult to phrase in any meaningful way.

    I'm really hoping that the port to the Aria engine will improve that aspect of the library dramatically. Really, all you can do at this point is just make the notes louder or softer. If you want more variety in the attacks, experiment with layering other sounds (from other libraries) on top of the JABB tracks. I've hadd pretty good success layering the Wallander trumpet with JABB trumpet 1 for a lead sound.

    Interestingly enough, both products are awaiting a new player engine. Walander has made noises about late summer/early fall, but I haven't heard anything about when a Garritan/Aria/JABB might ship.
    Paul Baker
    Baker's Jazz And More
    Austin, Texas, USA
    www.bakersjazzandmore.com

  10. #10

    Re: JABB Project

    Switching the mellower instruments, ie. instead of trumpets 1,2,3,4 I now have four trumpet 1, the same with the other instruments, I would have done this in the first place but I thought using the same instruments they would cancel themselves out like playing back an instrument and playing along with it via keyboard.
    Anyway it does the trick!

    Phil

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