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Topic: May be a new piano in town?

  1. #1

    May be a new piano in town?

    Hello, this is my first NS post!
    I'm a latin-american composer,
    I've made a little demo about this new Piano Vsti.
    This piano is made at first for my personal use.
    Six layers, very dynamic and playable, sample based.
    They are my own samples.
    Before speaking about the sampled instrument,
    and any technical speaking (mikes, preamps, etc)
    I want to know your opinion about the Sound.
    The first demo is based on a very old Midifile Chick Corea style
    who lived in my archives (or diskettes) for many years,
    and I don't know who is the talented player who recorded
    this in the Atari midi days.
    Anyway the choice of this midifile was made considering
    the wide variety of dynamics and expression of this piece.
    If your reactions are positive, I can be motivated to
    publish the Vsti or not, free or cheap, in several formats.
    You can listen to it at:
    http://www.box.net/shared/xt3r13b6sw Chick Corea style
    rendering with internal reverb
    http://www.box.net/shared/0wfbyafk8o Keith Jarrett
    Koln Concert extract in wave format with internal reverb, or
    Debussy passage in pure dry no reverb no fx rendering
    Any feedback is welcome

    I'm also open to make some renderings of your midifiles
    for testing purposes.
    (And sorry about my poor English, I'm a spanish-brazilian guy)

  2. #2

    Re: May be a new piano in town?


    I'm interested in hearing how your piano handles quiet dynamics. I recorded the first 2 pages of Rachmaninoff Etudes-tableux op.33 No. 7 in G Minor, could you possibly render this with your piano?



  3. #3

    Re: May be a new piano in town?

    Solely from your demos, the piano sounds like it could work well with jazz/latin styles. It seems to be lacking some frequencies or definition in the mids compared to other pianos but that may just be the reverb messing with my head -- and it does give it a unique character. Would be interesting to hear it in a mix as well. It's not as up-front as some other sampled pianos, which actually could be a great thing in a mix.

    That Chick Corea demo shows it off quite well though.

  4. #4

    Re: May be a new piano in town?

    Not sure what your intentions are here, but...

    The sound is ok, but not on par with the libs released, such as Ivory, BellDMedia's pianos, Garritan, EWQL, etc.

    So, if your intention is to simply say, "hey look - I made my own piano!" then cool - you did a good job, and it is good for a hobbyist. But if your intentions are to compete with the aforementioned libs, you have a ways to go. Not saying you can't get there - you seem to know what you are doing to an extent, but quality-wise you are far from home.

    Good luck!

  5. #5

    Smile Re: May be a new piano in town?

    Hello again:
    Thanks for every input about my piano.
    I think, like Freakmod says, this piano works well
    in jazz and latin (myself ) kind of context.
    But, now listen to the new demo
    And I agree too with Jeffrey Hayat opinion:
    I can't pretend to compete with high-end sampled pianos
    like Ivory or other Grand Pianos. That's obvious.
    If the feedback is positive, I will work for improving it
    may be with a velocity curve control, and also create
    some other versions like Nki and/or other formats.
    But the goal is to offer a cheap alternative to students,
    home-studysts, amateurs, not professional composers
    like most people in NS. But your opinions are very important.
    Your Ears are very important!

    About sound:
    The demos submitted all privilegiated high dynamics
    (Corea-Jarrett) with some internal reverb.
    By request from Freakmod/Witek, I'm posting here a rendering of
    Rachmaninoff Etudes-tableaux op.33 No. 7 in G Minor:

    Hey Witek:
    Did you record this piece yourself? Bravo
    Your piece have a big dynamic hit at bar (47?)
    and I respected this (no compress or modify velocities)
    then the wave (no normalize) reflects it without modifications.
    Anyway, the rendering is completely dry, no fx, no reverb,
    the natural ambience of the piano.

    Any feedback welcome

  6. #6

    Re: May be a new piano in town?

    Hi Pablo,

    Thank you for rendering my example in your piano! Yes, I recorded it myself. I am used to playing this one on a real piano, which is a real test of subtle dynamics. I have listened to your rendering many times and am quite impressed how it sounds when I add some nice reverb onto it.

    The subjective issues I have with the sound are that the ppp-mp dynamics seem to be too strong in their velocity layers. I would maybe suggest moving some velocity layers up into the higher dynamics and recording another super-sensitive ppp layer for the quiet stuff. At times when the music is just gracing some piano notes it sounds like it's playing mezzo-piano - a little bit too bright or sharp for that velocity. It seems to be a problem with a lot of sampled pianos, and quite hard to get perfect.

    For example, when I play quiet dynamics on any real piano.. it feels 'muffled' and smooth in sound, instead of having a sharp attack.

    But then again, it seems to be able to hold its own well, and has potential I think

  7. #7

    Re: May be a new piano in town?

    your files are mono, and bass heavy.
    Thanks for posting!

  8. #8

    Re: May be a new piano in town?

    Quote from DPDAN:
    your files are mono, and bass heavy.
    Thanks for posting!

    Sorry DPDAN:
    Nobody complained about that, all my demo files are in Stereo;
    may be your setup is incorrect, can you verify, or look into
    the files wiith Audacity, SoundForge, Audition or another audio app?


  9. #9

    Re: May be a new piano in town?

    Quote from Witek / Freakmode
    The subjective issues I have with the sound are that the ppp-mp dynamics seem to be too strong in their velocity layers. I would maybe suggest moving some velocity layers up into the higher dynamics and recording another super-sensitive ppp layer for the quiet stuff.

    I think the first layers (between 0-64) are too spread or no enough
    detailed, when upper layers (64-127) are far more progressive.
    The original recording contains 8 layers, but the first layers were
    a little omitted privilegiating the mf/f/ff layers.
    This version of my piano has only 6 layers, but 8 was recorded.
    May be thinking about jazz/latin/funk players who want really are
    "in-the-mix", a kind of popular approach.
    With your ears, (like I) I see the necessity of a wider approach, even if
    the sampleset can grow.
    The recordings are made in 24 bits, and with 6 layers downgraded
    to 16 bits, the weight of the library now is 650 Mb.
    (That is the quality of the demos)
    But the recordings have 8 layers! Not all mapped in actual version.
    The missing pp-mp are already recorded, two layers more in the soft side!
    Maybe 8 layers in 24 bits will grow to 1.2 Gb, I will see, but I think
    is better do not make any compromise about quality concerning
    a very cheap product who can have good qualities, without trying to
    compete with the monsters like Ivory, EWQL, Garritan and others.
    And consequently is better to integrate the missing layers
    and go to only 24 bits samples, with a more detailed sensivity between ppp to mmf, and dynamics and layering improved.
    For me is not a problem, only more work, the pleasure of work,
    for better results.
    The goal is above all about playabiity, easy to use, no brainer,
    good sound, ready to go, HD streaming, etc.
    Tonight I spent some time listening several times to your Rachmaninoff with my humble piano, and that was a nice moment (what a romantic pop song !!!)
    Greetings for all and thanks for every opinion
    (From Chile living in France)

  10. #10

    Re: May be a new piano in town?

    Yes, I would agree that the soft layers need to be included. Do the demo mp3's make use of the usual approaches:

    A velocity modulated low-pass filter
    Velocity to sample start, so that soft strikes start later in the sample to avoid transients?

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