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Topic: cc-problem with Kirk Hunter

  1. #1

    cc-problem with Kirk Hunter (the library)


    i've got a problem controlling the kirk hunter diamond-patches via midi-cc. i tried 3 patches, all had the same problem - for example 01_strad_k.nki (solo violion) ...
    cc22 should control the overtones-knob, and it does as long as i'm dialing the hardware-knob assigned to cc22, but neither does it show in kontakt (but it's clearly audible) nor does it last - when i stop dialing the hardware-knob, it returns to the value assigned via mouse within kontakt. i tried it with kontakt standalone and as a plugin in logic.
    bela d celtic winds works fine.

    what is wrong? did i miss a switch? i tried to additionally add cc22 to the overtones-parameter within kontakt-automations (host and midi), it works but also crashes kontakt/logic right away.

    my setup: macbook pro/osx 10.5.4, Logic 8.0.2, Kontakt 2.2.4

  2. #2

    Re: cc-problem with Kirk Hunter

    Host automation works best, but are you using region based automation, or track based automation when trying to cue the effect? Logic prefers track based for this. However, host automation is the most fluid. I use it all the time, and it does not crash logic. Maybe you should contact someone at Apple for this? I'm not a logic expert.

    Let me know how it goes.

  3. #3

    Re: cc-problem with Kirk Hunter

    as i said: this is not a logic problem, it's not working in kontakt standalone either and other libraries do work.

    and i'm not talking about automation at all (that's just the name of the options where you can apply midi-ccs to any button in kontakt), i'm talking about my midi-keyboard which has some knobs i'd like to use to adjust parameters like attack, release, overtones and it's not working. when i stop dialing that hardware-knob on my midi-keyboard it jumps back to the value i entered with my mouse to the scripts-knob (it's clearly audible though that it works while i'm dialing that hardware-knob, so my cc's are right).

    the automation-options was just one thing i tried to solve this, but it didn't work

  4. #4

    Re: cc-problem with Kirk Hunter

    Ok, let me take a look at this tomorrow. I suspect I can write a script for this issue.

  5. #5

    Re: cc-problem with Kirk Hunter

    so i'm the only one with this issue so far? all you guys out there can control those script-knobs (attack, release, overtones, ...) with a hardware-controller? (or your sequencers automation?)
    btw: mod- and pitchwheel both work fine.

  6. #6

    Re: cc-problem with Kirk Hunter

    Ok, so I've run a few checks, and here are the results...

    Whenever you create a ui (button or knob), it means that the user must actually somehow engage the ui so that it visibly changes values to enact its feature. Therefore, since assigning midi cc (in this case #22) in your track does not physically alter the value of the ui, you'll only hear the effect on the first note, and that's only MAYBE. Therefore, you must use the mouse or somehow make it so that you are visibly changing the values continuously to hear the effect. For me, the following worked perfectly:

    Tick the "Auto" tab in Kontakt's browser pane.
    Drag a host automation # down to the "Overtones" knob itself. You'll see that the automation number now reads "Overtones (script 1)"
    Make sure that you put that track you're recording on into Latch or Touch mode for automation.
    Either record and play with the knob, or record and go back later and play with the knob. Poof! works perfectly.

    If you want me to create the instrument so that you can simply assign midi cc22 and get the same result, I can do that for you, but you'd lose the knob ui.

  7. #7

    Re: cc-problem with Kirk Hunter

    do i get you right: it cannot be hardware controlled as long as there is this mouse-controlled-ui-knob? that these knobs are assigned to cc's already is only for recording purposes?
    they have to be controlled by mouse right now?

  8. #8

    Re: cc-problem with Kirk Hunter

    Yes, this is correct because of the way Kontakt's script works on note commands. Unfortunately, as far as I know, you can't change the VISIBLE value of a knob unless you use the mouse, or host automation. And Kontakt needs to "see" the knob's value change in order for you to get the desired effect over real time. If you could get your keyboard to "handshake" with this host automation, you could get it to work.

    However, like I said, if you want to be able to do this with midi cc, I can do that, but I would have to remove the knob so that it would work "under the hood", and perhaps put a cc number list in a display box so you'd know which cc to assign.....?

  9. #9

    Re: cc-problem with Kirk Hunter

    found my solution by doing more trial and error, and it works like charm -i can see, hear and record it. (tried it in standalone and in logic)

    what works: using kontakt midi-automation and assigning cc-values to the ui-knobs that are not used by the script. (01_con_vns_k_av for example, uses cc14, 15, 20, 22-25, 27-33 and 38).
    the only minor problem is, that you have to assign every knob from every instrument. let's say you have 5 instruments loaded (violin1, violin2, viola, cello, bass), each of them set to another midi-chan. if i assign the violin1-release knob to cc44, it works only for violin1 - i have to assign cc44 to violin2-release, viola-release, cello-release, bass-release also to make it work for them to - but that's no problem, there's no interference since they all receive on a different midi-chan.

    if i use a cc that the script uses, it will be reset whenever i press a key. let's take 01_con_vns_k_av for example, with every key i press it sends a cc on 14, 15, 20, 22-25, 27-33 and 38 - if i happen to use one of these, they will be reset to the value i entered with my mouse whenever i press a key.

    if i happen to use the cc that is already assigned to the ui-knob (release has cc31 assigned by kirk, now i double that by assigning cc31 from kontakt-midi-automation to that same release-knob) it crashes kontakt/logic.

    anything left to do? well it would be great, if the knobs were reacting to the cc's they are showing when i click on them (like cc31 for release) without me having to manually assign them to a midi-automation, but i don't really care ... give us more ModWheel-Velocity-Patches instead .o)

  10. #10

    Re: cc-problem with Kirk Hunter

    I was not aware that Kirk Hunter the man was affected by MIDI CC changes. Hmm, let's test this out. If I move my fader on my M-Audio 02, will he send me his top library for free?

    Waitaminute.....I'm moving the dial...no emails confirming shipment yet. I must choose another midi control #. Maybe 666. That might do it.

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