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Topic: The real other side of Broadway Big Band (Long post, important info)

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  1. #1

    The real other side of Broadway Big Band (Long post, important info)

    Hello people!

    It has been almost 1 month since I bought BBB and still I can't get the software to run 100% smoothly.

    Things people don't know:


    1 - Samples
    I start with what is the best and also the worst of this library, the samples themselves.
    I mean they sound great but I am having an ever increasing list of samples where you hear the musicians / recording engineers talking in the background in the end of the sample. So forget about using certain notes with many of the instruments alone.

    *****EDIT*****

    2 Examples (out of many more) of Recording Engineers talking in background:

    http://www.musicbypedro.com/bbb/BBB_sample_problem.mp3
    http://www.musicbypedro.com/bbb/BBB_..._problem_2.mp3

    The first one is:
    Alto-Sax-1_Legato_Mic-4 Glide Down sample from BBB, note is C4
    The second one I dont recall now, but I can give you details later on

    Hear the samples loud because the voices are quite lower than the note itself.

    **************


    This is clearly not acceptable for a 2500 USD product


    2 - Working in a modern multi PC studio (the dreadful Performer Tool)
    It is simply not possible. Or at least not possible maintaining a good latency / fluid workflow.
    The problem is the Performer Tool (one of the worst programmed performers I ever seen). Besides not being user friendly / well designed it takes a huge amount of screen space AND, above all, it needs the dongle to run.

    So if you want to run BBB in a server PC, as most modern composers do these days, you need to run the performer in the same PC as where the libraries are installed.

    As you can see this requires you to send the midi by lan to the server PC into the Performer, bring it back to the DAW PC, then send again the resulting midi to the Halion Player and bring back the audio.

    Well then I thought, if I separated the licenses (you get 3 licenses) into 2 dongles, maybe I could run the Performer in the DAW PC.

    A genius head also thought about making this not work properly because the Performer also checks the dongle and only makes available the patches whose licenses are in the PC dongle. This means for example, if you used the DAW PC for the Drums and leave the reeds and Brasses in the server PC you still have to run a performer in he server PC to get the Performer Patches for the Reeds and Brasses.

    All this back and forth midi makes the instrument become slowww..

    Also the performer regularly checks for the dongle in the PC so forget about switching the dongles from PC to PC.

    I asked the creator of this library why this is not possible and the answer he told me was: "I never thought about using this (100Gbs) Product in a multi PC studio".


    3 - The Halion Player

    Simply put, it sucks (no surprises here). Not only it is horrible looking / horribly designed, but also the performance is FAR away from the performance from Kontakt / Giga. On top of this, you know the stability issues you get when you have more than one Player type in the same PC.

    So software-wise, you get a crappy Performer AND a crappy player.


    4 - Working in a single PC - Midi Routing Issues

    So after knowing that you can only work with BBB in a single PC problems dont stop yet.
    Midi routing!!
    Being a 2500USD product and instead of doing like the amazing EWQL Symphonic Choirs' Worldbuilder, a midi plugin to control the midi messages and letting the workflow become much more fluid/faster/more intuitive, when you load a new project you have to load the Performer 1st, then load the project in the performer and then load the project in the DAW.

    For this to work, they base themselves in a free program called Maple Midi. There are 3 problems with this:
    a) Maple Midi will not be free forever;
    b) It is only 32bit (so if you are using XP / Vist 64bit you have to BUY a new virtual Midi Cable program)
    c) If you are using Sonar (like me) Maple midi will simply crash Sonar (even if in a 32bit OS).

    So you pay 2500 USD AND you still have to buy a Midi routing program.


    5 - Working in a single PC - Working with BBB as VST

    The developer even told me this wasn't the best way to use BBB, you should use BBB in Hybrid ReWire mode). As I would expect, it is not very stable, so expect crashes.
    In fact BBB was the first thing in almost 2 years to crash my studio.


    6 - Working in a single PC - Working with BBB as Hyrbid ReWire

    It is only 32 bit compatible (Hybrid ReWire technology has no 64-bit compatibility yet) so if you have XP/Vista 64bit forget about this.

    You are limited to 2Gbs of RAM allocation (remember it is a 100Gbs library) and you can't count in the Halion Player DFD for tons of instruments at the same time, not at least in the same way as you can count on Kontakt.

    When you open a project you have to:
    1 - Open the Performer / load the performer project
    2 - Open the DAW / Load the project
    3 - Load Halion Player / Load the Halion project

    Same goes when you save (in this deadline driven composing world, this IS time consuming).

    7 - Comparing to other libraries

    Drums - Good drums but not the best. With Atelier Robin Natural Drums you get excellent brush drums and much more.


    Double Bass - Good one but VSL's Upright Bass:
    http://vsl.co.at/en/211/496/721/533/421.htm
    or even Trilogy are better.

    Brass - In terms of trumpets, The Trumpet from SampleModdeling is way better.
    http://www.samplemodeling.com/en/products.php

    Trombones - I can't find a good replacement for jazzy sound, BBB's one are quite nice.
    Tubas - VSL / EWQLSO / SI orchestra are good as well


    Reeds - You wont get better Reeds anywhere but in BBB. The saxes are amazing and the clarinet too.


    I don't mean by any means to make any of you not buy BBB, but this post is something that the world really needs.




    Cheers,

    -Pedro
    Pedro Macedo Camacho
    Composer
    musicbypedro.com

  2. #2

    Re: The real other side of Broadway Big Band (Long post, important info)

    That's a very informative post, thanks Pedro!
    Is there a demo that shows the reeds and saxes in action?
    I mean without the rest.

  3. #3

    Re: The real other side of Broadway Big Band (Long post, important info)

    1. The samples are not perfect, neither are real players. I helped Lenny Pickett get BBB going in Logic and he loves the way it sounds and as one of the truly great saxophonists and a former member of Tower of Power, I think he is a pretty good measuring stick.

    2. The latest version of the Halion player now works really well as an AU in Logic, so I no longer need to use it s standalone with Soundflower, although I still can if I want.

    3. I agree that they need to make it more multiple computer friendly, although in this day and age, nobody should be using a PC
    Composer, Logic Certified Trainer, Level 2,
    author of "Going Pro with Logic Pro 9."

    www.jayasher.com

  4. #4

    Re: The real other side of Broadway Big Band (Long post, important info)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashermusic View Post
    3. I agree that they need to make it more multiple computer friendly, although in this day and age, nobody should be using a PC
    I tend to believe that everyone should be using what fits his/her needs.
    The result isn't really depending on what computer platform you use.

    This PC/Mac racism isn't really needed anymore.

  5. #5

    Re: The real other side of Broadway Big Band (Long post, important info)

    I guess your smiley wasn't big enough, Jay.

    Rob

  6. #6

    Re: The real other side of Broadway Big Band (Long post, important info)

    Sad to see. But I watched a demo live and although the sound was impressive, the small ensemble killed a fast dual core DAW.

    I am only interested in what I can use live. As far as recording goes, whenever I do get to do something where there is a budget, we always hire from the pit. We are fast approaching a full cycle turn around where the real musicians can sound better, and are reasonably priced.

    CHHorns 2 is what I am looking at right now to supplement my section sounds, as I would never attempt to immatate a real Sax solo, but can live with my section sounds even though I have to mix a few to get the desired results.

    Trumpets libraries are much more friendly to incorporate as solo instruments and I have some passable content that cost's my E8600 and RAM little troubles live, even in 32bit XP.

    But I agree, since Mac / Logic made the intelligent decision to use Intel CPU's it is fast becoming the DAW of choice in many studios where time is money. I use DSP based apps and hardware and they are cross platform, so in time to use some high quality Romplers live I might have to switch to a Quad Octa design or whatever is needed. Just as long as these developers follow through w/ some support. I do business w/ Soniccore and John Bowen because we are involved in the design, and they upgrade constantly to add features that aren't even necessary. I don't see that anywhere else in the Rompler world, although Chris Hein seemed to be concerned and release volume 2. I will purchase it and see how well it works. I am sure it too will require lots of RAM and resources, but at the end of the day, if it works....I win.
    JimmyV

  7. #7

    Re: The real other side of Broadway Big Band (Long post, important info)

    I am sorry to post a different link about this same issue (I never link to other forums here) but I think it is extremely important to open an exception here for everyone to read the whole thing

    http://.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10242
    Pedro Macedo Camacho
    Composer
    musicbypedro.com

  8. #8

    Re: The real other side of Broadway Big Band (Long post, important info)

    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro Camacho View Post
    I am sorry to post a different link about this same issue (I never link to other forums here) but I think it is extremely important to open an exception here for everyone to read the whole thing

    http://.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10242
    the link got removed...

  9. #9

    Re: The real other side of Broadway Big Band (Long post, important info)

    Aw, c'mon guys, I was joking about the Mac/PC thing. Did you not see the smiley?
    Composer, Logic Certified Trainer, Level 2,
    author of "Going Pro with Logic Pro 9."

    www.jayasher.com

  10. #10

    Re: The real other side of Broadway Big Band (Long post, important info)

    Goddamn, you got me there!

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