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Topic: How To Edit JABB In Sonar

  1. #1

    How To Edit JABB In Sonar

    When you're using JABB in Sonar or Cubase SX , playing each part into Sonar, the brass section, after recording each part, you edit the notes on each track in the piano roll editor. Seems time consuming! Is it possible to edit the notes, on each track, all together instead of note by note? You know, if some notes on each track are starting late/early or ending at different times?

  2. #2

    Re: How To Edit JABB In Sonar

    In Cubase you can get all the notes on the beat using quantise, this however can lose the "feel" of the music. You can delete overlaps and can join highlighted groups together to form a legato passage (with a preset overlap / gap eg say 1/32 nd note left between adjacent notes so that the sound is not actually a legato, the attack will sound each time, I think it works in ticks rather than note lengths).
    Things may come and things may go but the art school dance goes on forever
    NOW WITH Cubase 5, JABB,GPO, Fender Strat, Ibanez RG, Yamaha Fretless Bass, Framus Archtop, The Trumpet and Mr T Sax, together with GREEN SEALING WAX

  3. #3

    Re: How To Edit JABB In Sonar

    Thank you for that response Derek! Now, do you add any controllers after you record the notes or as you record the notes from a keyboard? Big band arrangements that use samples involves tedious programming to make arrangements sound like the real thing. That's what I'm looking to do with JABB.

  4. #4

    Re: How To Edit JABB In Sonar

    Unfortunately, as yet, there is no second volume control in JABB as there is in midi CC7 and CC11 but if you want a crescendo on more than one instrument you can prepare a track with mod wheel recorded, on channel 1 and copy it to othe channels, you can have more than one track on each channel. This sort of trick helps out.

    Gary said on chat the other week that the ARIA version will have additional level controls, something to look forward to.
    Things may come and things may go but the art school dance goes on forever
    NOW WITH Cubase 5, JABB,GPO, Fender Strat, Ibanez RG, Yamaha Fretless Bass, Framus Archtop, The Trumpet and Mr T Sax, together with GREEN SEALING WAX

  5. #5

    Re: How To Edit JABB In Sonar

    Hello, ronboykin - I don't think I've seen your name on the Forums before. Welcome!

    As with most posts here, you've gotten some good, helpful responses. Exploring Sonar you'll discover a lot of functions to help lighten your work load.

    BUT - this is my particular tastes and sensibility speaking, I've found that the vast majority of the time, it's more satisfactory to spend the time to hand-do most everything in my tracks. Jon described his way of doing this, and it's much the same as what I do.

    So when you say, "...Seems time consuming!..." you're not just whistling Dixie---Or maybe you are, I don't know, maybe you're an accomplished whistler.

    It took me well over a year to re-record all the songs in a stage musical I wrote. That's two hours of music, a lot, but you still might think it wouldn't take over a year of full time work to get it done. It can, and it did for me. I had one version of the show recorded with hardware synths - then I discovered the Garritan Libraries. I simply had to start over - I started with the original MIDI tracks, and the arrangements became more expanded as I got inspired by the great sounds in GPO and the other libraries.

    Most of that time was spent giving each single note detailed attention - editing the velocity if needed, tweaking the recorded CC1 data, moving it slightly ahead or behind if wanted - as Jon was describing.

    At least 3/4 of the time spent with a new composition is spent in the recording of it. And for me that can become an extremely satisfying thing, a meditation, totally in the slow motion groove of honing what I've written.

    So that's why most short cuts just don't yield the kind of results I'm happy with. For instance, the idea of copying and pasting the crescendo from one instrument to another just can't work for me. It doesn't take that much longer to record a unique crescendo in real time for each instrument - and as with other useful random variations in timing, it adds more Life to the track.

    Deep breath - Dig in--Honing your MIDI compositions via all that editing can become a musical meditation for you.

    And after all, your compositions deserve all the love and attention you can give them.

    Randy B.

  6. #6

    Re: How To Edit JABB In Sonar

    So many great points Randy!

    Excellent post!!!

    If one spends days, weeks, even months writing their music, is it not also appropriate to spend however long it takes to make that music listenable?

    Music is to be listened to, not looked at.
    A printed score is just the documentation of the music.
    Using just the data will create a beautiful "computer" version of it, but most people won't want to listen to it.

    Cut and paste only if you are going to smash the living crap out of the pasted original phrase and rebuild it from the ground up. I think it is ok to copy and paste the notes, but all the continuous data should be completely different and the notes should be randomely altered as far as velocity, onset, release, etc.. OK now I'm repeating what Randy said


  7. #7

    Re: How To Edit JABB In Sonar

    Thanks for the enthusiastic reply, Dan - This is the kind of topic that really hits you where you live isn't it? hehe.

    We all have our individual ways of being "perfectionists" - And I know from being around the Forum for awhile now, that you undoubtedly beat me in the perfectionist department, Dan, in some ways at least. hehehehe.

    They really are two different worlds - notation and recording. I didn't know until recently what a royal Pain it can be to get something looking acceptable and sufficiently accurate in a notation program. I'm glad I went through a learning curve with Sibelius, but I've said before, and I'll say it again, that nothing can replace the experience of creating my music by Playing it--even in bits and dabs and assembling them, doing that initial creative work in Sonar (in my case) and then dealing with the world of blobs on paper (computer analogy of) only when I Must.

    People who swear by straight C&P, justifying it by saying "The heart of music is repetition" are forgetting what the soul of music is--variety. Maybe in a notated score you Do want some passages to look exactly the same, but the same isn't true in a recording.

    Exactly as you said, and as I was illustrating in my earlier post, paste a chorus as a foundation for the second chorus - but you simply have to do something different with that repeat. If you're not expanding and building your arrangement and you really want the choruses to sound "the same," as in a pop song, then at least re-invent their dynamic performance, as you said, re-recording the volume changes etc., and hopefully changing some the lead lines. That's as it is in recordings done by a full band - those choruses may sound the same, but the bass player is approaching the repeats with some differences, and so is the lead guitar -etc.

    It's just too much fun to craft your pieces into something that makes for good listening. Why leave all that fun to automatic plugin short cuts and such?

    Randy B.

  8. #8

    Re: How To Edit JABB In Sonar

    Hello all -

    One thing I have found helpful, and I am sure many of you are already aware of this, is the use of a bc3 breath controller. You need to have a keyboard with a breath controller input, but if you do, and you happen to be a wind instrument player (or even if you are not) you can really add some nice expression to a musical line.

    The mod wheel is great too - it all depends what you are used to and comfortable with.


  9. #9

    Re: How To Edit JABB In Sonar

    I've just recently came back to this forum ( my original post is a little old). I'm kinda new to the JABB (it's taking me some time to get use to JABB) and I'm still learning the library. I'm amazed that my original post is getting some recent responses after all this time. This is good advice for sure! I even printed these posts out to study! Playing each part into the sequencer is a lot of work for me because when I did big band charts, in the past, I've use pencil and paper but now I'm using Finale 2008, Sonar and Cubase! It's quite a transition. I like to use SX over Sonar only because of the score editor and the way Cubase handles virtual instruments. Sonar won't let you print out a lot of staves. I wish Cakewalk would develope a better staff view for Sonar! My basic problem is using a sequencer with JABB to get a good sound but also print out the score which can be done in easier in Cubase or I can export the midi file to Finale.

  10. #10

    Re: How To Edit JABB In Sonar

    Hi, ronboykin - Welcome back to the Forum!

    "...Sonar won't let you print out a lot of staves..."

    In case this helps, to print the Staff View screen in Sonar, you have to have that window opened by itself, not tabbed. When you've done that, there's a variety of layouts available, and you can indeed print out "a lot of staves."

    But you wouldn't want print outs from Sonar to be your final product, that's what Finale and the other notation programs are for.

    If you just need some scratch copies of things to focus on via hard copies, Sonar will do just fine. In fact, I seem to find the Staff View more useful than a lot of people. It does everything I need when I'm working on a recording. I have Sibelius if I decide I absolutely must have a nice looking hard copy for some reason.

    Randy B.

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