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Topic: First Debate a tie?

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  1. #1

    First Debate a tie?

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    Well, depending on where you get your news from, the results differ.
    Most say it was a tie.
    My personal belief is the same yet I was dissapointed by both candidates.

    MSNBC show Obama as a clear winner.
    This doesn't surprise me as it leans heavely to the left.
    Fox's blogs on the other hand show a McCain victory. (I can't load the polling results for some reason.)
    Again, no surprise here as Fox is percieved as a right wing outlet however, they have moved more center in the last year.
    Drudge shows a massive win by McCain, no surprise there either!
    Most media outlets show Obama winning, once again no surprise as 90% of our media leans to the left.

    Prior to last weeks financial disaster the war on terror had been the most important issue. I believe it still will be.

    It's clear to me that both candidates disagree on the details, as they must politically, yet both are commited to escalating this war.
    By that I mean broadening it.

    Like it or not, this will definitly happen and I simply can't understand those who belief otherwise.
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  2. #2
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    Re: First Debate a tie?

    I watched some of it actually. I bet you're wishing Ron Paul had won the primary right now.

    I can't see how you're going to be able to vote for Mr McGoo though. Impossible I would have thought - re: Wall Street nonsense and his patronizing attitude.

    Like I said before- your choices for a country with that many people in it are ridiculous almost in the extreme now.

    When the dollar devalues to a dime - I would imagine they'll stick GB's face on it right?

  3. #3

    Re: First Debate a tie?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ernstinen View Post
    Yea, I'd say it was probably a tie. I don't think either candidate changed too many people's minds.

    Most media outlets say it was an "introduction" debate. I think the next 2 will be far more interesting.

    I think Obama more than held his own, though, in light of that this first debate was supposed to be right down McCain's alley, foreign policy. So because McCain didn't deliver a knockout punch, maybe I'd give a slight edge to Obama for some fine boxing techniques!

    Ern
    Yeah, when I think about it more, McCain really missed his opportunity to impress with his so called foreign policy experience.
    In actuality he DOES have quite a bit of experience but he just seems so uncertain about things.
    He hasn't been able to articulate during this campain at all.

    The only issue where he stands his ground and seems to truly project his opinion is on war on terror.
    Due to his past experiences and what he's gone through, I can understand that.

    I must say that irrespective of the issues on the table, this election is probably going to be won on personal appeal and the fact that most in the US really are looking for "change". It's what they want to hear, even if we don't get it.

    Besides Obama is a brilliant politician.
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  4. #4

    Re: First Debate a tie?

    Regarding the content of the debate...

    McCain kept returning to the topic of cutting earmarks, which is an $18B/year problem. Compare that to the $10B/month problem that is the Iraq war, or the $700B bailout problem caused by Washington being co-opted by banking lobbyists.

    Sure, bad pork earmarks stink. But the problem is an order of magnitude less than what we get with a war and lack of governance. And realistically, some of the earmarks are good - we need to keep our bridges in good repair, that funds jobs, and those workers spend money in the real economy. Not all earmark spending is pork. (And, of course, not all earmark spending is good either.)

    Another central topic was trickle down. Thank goodness that theory is dying. Give a rich guy another $200k in tax breaks and he might buy stock, but he's not buying another pizza at the local restaurant. Give 200 people $1,000 in tax breaks and they'll each buy pizza, shoes, movie tickets and other goods and services that funds the real economy. Obama gets it. McCain didn't mention the middle class even once.

    On foreign policy, McCain offers more Bush-style belligerance. Obama wants to implement US influence through diplomacy and negotiation. If Obama's plan fails, you can always resort to hostilities. If it works, hostilities aren't needed. Let's face it. War is expensive in lives and treasure, and it makes you take your eye off the ball in other areas of the globe. In other words, war has tremendous opportunity costs. The US is much more powerful when we avoid war than when we enter it.

    Frankly, I didn't see where McCain's foreign policy differs from that of the neo-cons that are on his campaign.

    On foreign policy, Obama showed that he has command and composure. He's not the empty suit cartoon that the GOP talking points try to paint. McCain, the war hero, didn't dwarf him.

    On issues, Obama won handily. On style - especially relating to competence in foreign policy - Obama beat the expectations set by his detractors. McCain didn't.

    There were no home runs and no big gaffes, so the initial reaction is that it was a tie. However, in a week or two, we will be left with the impression that Obama "gets it", and can handle the job. That's a big gain among low-information voters. McCain didn't leave much of a long-term impression, except that he will fight earmarks - as if that's the biggest problem we face.

  5. #5

    Thumbs up Re: First Debate a tie?

    Quote Originally Posted by JonFairhurst View Post
    Frankly, I didn't see where McCain's foreign policy differs from that of the neo-cons that are on his campaign.

    On foreign policy, Obama showed that he has command and composure. He's not the empty suit cartoon that the GOP talking points try to paint. McCain, the war hero, didn't dwarf him.

    On issues, Obama won handily. On style - especially relating to competence in foreign policy - Obama beat the expectations set by his detractors. McCain didn't.
    Bingo. This was supposed to be McCain's strong area, but Obama stayed with him stride for stride, and in some cases came across as more statesman-like.
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  6. #6
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    Re: First Debate a tie?

    He is more presentable on TV than Mr McGoo - but neither of them seem to know sh!t so far.

    As far Miss Moose in the Hoose is concerned - well..........

    Let's hope that 700 very large notes turns out to be enough - because if it isn't - well..........

    What ever happens, neither of these poor saps stand a chance really. The dollar is going to pack it's bags and take a very long vacation real soon. Inflation? heheheheh........

    Anything yoos guys need to know about debt - that's the stuff I've been telling y'all about for the last 5 years btw - lemme know.







  7. #7

    Re: First Debate a tie?

    The Republicans fought tooth and nail for war and tax cuts. They aren't the victims of debt. They're the perps. (And many of the Dems were patsies.) It's not like the debt was a big surprise.

    Neither candidate will cut war funding immediately. McCain will stay in Iraq. Obama will transition to Afghanistan. The only options are more debt or more taxes. It's not rocket science.

    McCain is for more debt.

    Obama is for more taxes for the wealthy.

    Given that the income gap between rich and poor has exploded since Reagan, Obama's path is the only one that makes sense.

    Eventually, we need to throttle down the war making, unless backed into a corner. Clearly, the cool head will be better at this than the hothead.

    The differences between these candidates could not be clearer.

  8. #8
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    Re: First Debate a tie?

    Quote Originally Posted by JonFairhurst View Post
    It's not like the debt was a big surprise.

    EXCUSE ME! Of course it was a big surprise - to many. If it wasn't a big surprise, the Bradford & Bingley wouldn't have been nationalised today. You have to understand people.

    Here's a God's honest example. I told a guy nearly 2 years ago to sell HBOS at £11.25. They happened to have peaked at £11.62, but no one obviously knew that at the time. He said why. I said because I think because of their mortgage book they're in trouble, along with Northern Rock and maybe the B&B.
    He said I didn't know what I was talking about. I said fine - what are you going to do? He went on buying HBOS until they hit about £7 and then stopped and later told us he would wait for them to go back up. Yeah - right.

    That is what debt is about - people don't ever listen to anyone that's qualified - they always know best.

    I sold 14000 HBOS at £11.62 btw - but that's only because I'm (a) a genius and (b) extremely lucky.

    Listen to Ron Paul - he gets it.

    Quote Originally Posted by JonFairhurst View Post
    It's not rocket science.

    McCain is for more debt.

    Obama is for more taxes for the wealthy.

    Given that the income gap between rich and poor has exploded since Reagan, Obama's path is the only one that makes sense.

    Eventually, we need to throttle down the war making, unless backed into a corner. Clearly, the cool head will be better at this than the hothead.

    The differences between these candidates could not be clearer.
    That's the problem though - it is rocket science to the vast majority. If you gathered 100 people together and asked them how their retirement contracts worked, certainly in this country, you would lucky if 3 of them actually knew anything at all.

    It's like anything - labour (democrats) will always tax and spend. As they have here for 11 years and now this country is effectively bankrupt as announced today by the incumbent Chancellor (probably) and of course, he's right. But I've been telling you that would happen for 5 years. When you know stuff like this, you make money out of it, although I feel my short selling days could now be numbered.

    With Tories (republicans) - they will take care of the more well off (whatever that means) but they will not get this country, or yours out of the sh!t either.

    Re: warfare. Why bother to go to war against a place unless you're prepared to level it? I've never understood this. Stay at home and let their internal forces do whatever they want to - unless you're prepared to level the place and everyone in it. Much quicker that way.

    This is why I neither vote Tory or labour.

    Bottom line- IT IS rocket science to the average person - most people haven't the brains they're born with - you should have got to grips with this by now Jon. Seriously.

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