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Topic: Message for a prof. pianist - turns!

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  1. #1

    Message for a prof. pianist - turns!

    Turns comes in different shapes. I really forgot the way it is played. Is there a rule of the thumb? Busy with a piece, I see two different shapes. With the curls up and sometimes down. When does a turn start on the note below the one above the turn is notated?

    In fact the whol score is just a mess. Turns all over, sometimes different in shape, sometimes replaced by common trills, sometimes by a mordent. I assume that Chopin never intended this or notated this in the original.

    Any advice will be highly appreciated,

    Raymond

  2. #2

    Re: Message for a prof. pianist - turns!

    I can't recall ever seeing a turn that curled down at the end. The standard turn starts at the upper auxiliary, goes through the written note, to the lower auxiliary, and returns to the written note. E.g., a turn on C in C major is D-C-B-C, though the written C often sounds for a bit first, as in C-----D-C-B-C. The exact rhythm varies with tempo, but it is usually played pretty fast in any event as a connection to the next written-out note.

    I suppose if the turn is reversed, curling down at the end, you could interpret this as the opposite, i.e., B-C-D-C on a written C.

    What Chopin are you looking at?

  3. #3

    Re: Message for a prof. pianist - turns!

    Thank you a lot. I am looking at Opus 1, can you imagine a composition of a boy of 15 years!!! It is filled with turns with curls down at the end.

    Raymond

  4. #4

    Re: Message for a prof. pianist - turns!

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond62 View Post
    Turns comes in different shapes. I really forgot the way it is played. Is there a rule of the thumb? Busy with a piece, I see two different shapes. With the curls up and sometimes down. When does a turn start on the note below the one above the turn is notated?

    In fact the whol score is just a mess. Turns all over, sometimes different in shape, sometimes replaced by common trills, sometimes by a mordent. I assume that Chopin never intended this or notated this in the original.

    Any advice will be highly appreciated,

    Raymond
    Hello Raymond,

    Where the curl of a turn is pointing downwards, this is an inverted turn. There are at least three ways of showing an inverted turn:

    (a) As a standard turn only with a short vertical line through the middle.
    (b) As a standard turn only the other way around ie with the first curl pointing upwards and the end curl pointing downwards.
    (c) Like a standard turn only written vertical instead of horizontal.

    These ornaments are not seen that often as they are usually written out in full. I realise your particular example is Chopin, but, in general, the speed the turn is played depends on the tempo of the music and the note values indicated by the composer in relation to the time signature. My old professor also argued that the period of the music also has a bearing on this.

    In the case of an inverted turn, the note below the principal note is played first.

    Hope this helps.
    Michael
    Patience is a virtue, sensitivity is a gift

  5. #5

    Re: Message for a prof. pianist - turns!

    I've never heard Op. 1, much less played it, but in the public domain version out on imslp http://imslp.org/wiki/Special:ImagefromIndex/00487 the turns all curl up at the end. Perhaps your edition is in error?

    Oh, I forgot to mention all notes of a turn are in the prevailing key unless alterations are indicated. An accidental below the turn means to alter the lower auxiliary, while an accidental above indicates alteration of the upper auxiliary.

  6. #6

    Re: Message for a prof. pianist - turns!

    DarwinK..,

    Now that I have seen your link, I am sure that my version has some errors. My version is from CD-Sheet Music. Today I will spend some time correcting those errors and maybe others.......

    Raymond

  7. #7

    Re: Message for a prof. pianist - turns!

    Raymond,

    I have this Rondo in Schirmer edition, and on the first page there are examples of how to play:




    Yudit

  8. #8

    Re: Message for a prof. pianist - turns!

    Yudit,

    great! Many thanks.

    Raymond

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