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Topic: Orchestral Library guns for hire?

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  1. #1

    Orchestral Library guns for hire?

    In my work, I use sample libraries only to present a demo to the director/client, and then usually hire live players for the final product. I've never been able to emulate orchestral sounds to my satisfaction with libraries, probably because I've never wanted to take all the time necessary to make the sample libraries sound real.

    That said, some of the mock-ups on this site have been pretty outstanding - which got me to thinking... Are there people out there with decent libraries who would take a midi file and create a true orchestral sound? And if so, what might be the cost?

    As an example, below is a link to one of the pieces I recorded last week with live musicians (including 13 strings, 3, 3, 3, 2, 2, tripped). It's more "light classical" (and more repetitive!) than I usually write, but it suited the film.

    http://www.jdkmusic.com//samples/Fra...tute_Open.aiff

    So how close could someone have gotten to this real sound, and would it have been more affordable than hiring live players? If anyone's interested in following up on this, let me know, and I can email you a MIDI file of the above as an example, to see what might be possible. Thanks!

    John

    www.jdkmusic.com

  2. #2
    Senior Member Steve_Karl's Avatar
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    Re: Orchestral Library guns for hire?

    Hi,

    I'm not able to open the file in either Sound Forge, Window Media Player, or Sonar.
    Can you post an MP3 or a .wav at 16/44?

    Thanks,

    .

  3. #3

    Re: Orchestral Library guns for hire?

    Steve, use quicktime.
    "Music is the shorthand of emotion." Leo Tolstoy

    Listen to me, tuning my triangle http://www.box.net/shared/ae822u6r3i

  4. #4

    Re: Orchestral Library guns for hire?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve_Karl View Post
    Hi,

    I'm not able to open the file in either Sound Forge, Window Media Player, or Sonar.
    Can you post an MP3 or a .wav at 16/44?

    Thanks,

    .
    Sure. Here's the same music in mp3 format. Not as clear, but you should get the idea...

    http://www.jdkmusic.com//samples/Fra...itute_Open.mp3

  5. #5
    Senior Member Steve_Karl's Avatar
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    Re: Orchestral Library guns for hire?

    Ahhh thanks Gunther!
    I should have just tried to play it in my browser! Works perfectly now.

    This is a very nicely written piece.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Steve_Karl's Avatar
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    Re: Orchestral Library guns for hire?

    Thanks John.
    Yes. The aiff has a bit more separation and depth. Great composition!

    I'll email you from your site.


    .

  7. #7

    Re: Orchestral Library guns for hire?

    Beautiful piece!
    rothermusic.de

  8. #8

    Re: Orchestral Library guns for hire?

    A great composition.

    To let this piece sound same by using an orchestra lib, oops, a lot of work.... .

    It is not anly the library you use, 50% is the mixing with all its possibilities.

    Best,
    Gunther
    "Music is the shorthand of emotion." Leo Tolstoy

    Listen to me, tuning my triangle http://www.box.net/shared/ae822u6r3i

  9. #9

    Re: Orchestral Library guns for hire?

    It is important to recognize that the midi-recording/sample lib approach has some very great strengths and some very obvious weaknesses.

    Some "real orchestral sounds" would be relatively easy to imitate.
    If you are looking for a large almost over-the-top hollywood sound or an electronic or media ventures sound then orchestral libs can do very well. In fact, some producers actually prefer that sound over a more traditional, classical(real) orchestra.

    On the other hand, it would be much harder to simulate realism with a smaller ensemble like the one you linked to (well done, by the way!), seeing as the individual instruments are more expressive and isolated.

    So it all really boils down to your needs. If you need a really big sound then I would seriously recommend considering a sampled approach, or perhaps mixing some "real" with some "fake".
    But for smaller ensembles I would try to record live whenever I could.
    VSL makes some good products in this area, but a small ensemble of skilled musicians has a quality that sampled technology can't (and I don't believe ever really will) imitate or replace.

    There are some samples on my site, www.benbotkin.com , that should give a pretty good representation of some of the strengths (and weaknesses ) of the "fake" or "MIDI" approach.
    NorthernSounds.NET.
    View Ben Botkin's Profile at NorthernSounds.net
    www.benbotkin.com

  10. #10

    Smile Re: Orchestral Library guns for hire?

    Quote Originally Posted by BenBotkin View Post
    It is important to recognize that the midi-recording/sample lib approach has some very great strengths and some very obvious weaknesses.

    Some "real orchestral sounds" would be relatively easy to imitate.
    If you are looking for a large almost over-the-top hollywood sound or an electronic or media ventures sound then orchestral libs can do very well. In fact, some producers actually prefer that sound over a more traditional, classical(real) orchestra.

    On the other hand, it would be much harder to simulate realism with a smaller ensemble like the one you linked to (well done, by the way!), seeing as the individual instruments are more expressive and isolated.

    So it all really boils down to your needs. If you need a really big sound then I would seriously recommend considering a sampled approach, or perhaps mixing some "real" with some "fake".
    But for smaller ensembles I would try to record live whenever I could.
    VSL makes some good products in this area, but a small ensemble of skilled musicians has a quality that sampled technology can't (and I don't believe ever really will) imitate or replace.

    There are some samples on my site, www.benbotkin.com , that should give a pretty good representation of some of the strengths (and weaknesses ) of the "fake" or "MIDI" approach.
    Thanks for your note. I've been a full-time composer working with orchestras and MIDI for about 20 years, so I'm pretty aware of strengths and weaknesses. My question was, for "smaller" sounding pieces (as in this piece with 39 strings), is there anyone out there who is comfortable/skilled enough with their own libraries to be able to emulate this reasonably well, for less than the cost of live players? If so, I'd certainly be willing to look at this middle ground as another possibility to offer to directors/producers.

    It may not be possible, but no harm in asking, right?

    ;-)

    John

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